I guess this all depends on how one defines a musician. I get it, I don't disagree, but I make a point not to disparage those who are aspiring to get better. I know a lot of people in this town who would accept mediocrity and call it good. Hopefully they're working to move to a place where they learn to be more discerning. But it's okay for them to be where they are. I'm also certainly not at the pinnacle of anything compared to some of the more studied people I know. So it's a continuum. I'm just glad I get to participate.
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Wants to be payed for practices
- Thread starter twinfallsbass
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The worst drummer I ever worked with said he studied with Buddy Rich. I don't know what and I don't know when but he was almost comically bad. If you weren't on the gig. I was on the gig. Longest gig of my life.
No need to be insulting or to get insulted. Make him a counter offer. He will only need to make one rehearsal per month (for which he doesn't get paid) but you will pay him the $150 minimum per gig. I would think for a serious band in a major metro area that shouldn't be too hard of a nut to crack.
okcrum
in your chest
My DB teacher summed it up for me once. He said "Not all pros are musicians, and not all musicians are pros". OP's band is looking for one of the latter, and the drummer they like is an actual pro musician.
I give credit for effort. If someone can play well enough to get through the gig in a competent fashion I don't consider that mediocre... because most people couldn't do that.
I don't feel like I'm disparaging people who don't try. They do that to themselves. Particularly the ones who clearly have the skill level but just come up short on some of the other aspects of being an adult in a business situation.
Wow, the only thing I find at all odd about this is the reaction to the drummer's request. The drummer has expectations for remuneration. The folks benefiting from the service are free to accept or reject those expectations. In the end, the employer and employee are responsible for negotiation the terms of the relationship and honoring those terms once agreed upon.
It's actually a common reaction around here.
Kudos for him being professional and trying for it.. ambitious. Doubt many others are paying him either. That in mind, I’d counter, $50 a rehearsal and an even split with the rest come gig time, take it or leave it.
I don't get the take it or leave it approach either. Unnecessary negativity IMO.
Just curious as to why you doubt he gets others to pay for rehearsals? What's it based on? I ask because I get paid for some rehearsals so I don't really get your POV.
Rehearsals are paid in my world of union gigs and orchestral / theater work. It has always been thus. I don't expect to get paid for a rehearsal with a Friday night band though. I don't have huge patience for unpaid rehearsals though. If you can solve the problems of getting the part played and doing it in very little time, I think expecting to be paid for that skill is reasonable enough. However, if you are a freelancer the expectations are different from other parts of the musical world.
IME with the right people a conversation can be a replacement for a rehearsal.
But some people need to physically play through songs, over and over again.
My definition of a "pro" player is someone who makes a living playing music or it is their primary source of income. Essentially, it's the only thing they do.
I don't think there is anything wrong with setting conditions or having minimum pay, as long as it is up front and everyone knows what they're getting into. I suspect that the reason the requests are being questioned as unreasonable is that maybe that that is not what the market value is for that type of band/musician is in your area?
I don't think there is anything wrong with setting conditions or having minimum pay, as long as it is up front and everyone knows what they're getting into. I suspect that the reason the requests are being questioned as unreasonable is that maybe that that is not what the market value is for that type of band/musician is in your area?
Didn’t mean to sound negative... I offered the $50. I wasn’t implying to be rude with an ultimatum, I was suggesting that may be all the band might be willing to do and it’s more than fair.
My POV is 30 years of playing in bands and only running across this 2-3 times. My world is weddings and small taverns.. so it may be an apples to oranges perspective compared to Union full time musician circles in major markets. I know you should not move to my area because nobody is paying for rehearsals. If youre down and out they might collectively give you $50 bucks to help out. They might even offer to call some contacts so you can get a job.
if your mind set is “well I’m a professional musician and deserve to be paid for my contribution”.. Ok but what about the other members contributing just as much to the musical whole of the band. The only real difference is they are also paying bills and providing their own gas money and not asking anyone else to pay it.
I was in a band with one of the aforementioned drummers and we all learned the material, got together to tighten it up, and it became a weekly expectation with one problem. No gigs. The person whose material we were learning had an expectation that someone else was going to book gigs for him, etc. Drummer and I agreed we didn't need to rehearse anymore until there was something on the books. I don't see where that's at all unreasonable. Nobody was getting paid.
Certainly at the pro level, paid rehearsals are common.
I was in one band that required a 90 minute drive one way to reharsals. The BL (whom I had played with before) wanted weekly rehearsals and didn't have a lot of gigs lined up. Gas was very expensive then and I told him since everybody else was within 10 minutes of the rehearsal space, I was the only one burning 6 gallons of gas plus tolls. He agreed to pay me $25 per rehearsal.
I was once asked to do a single gig with a singer songwriter. The gig was only going to pay $50 and she wanted me to rehearse (3 gallons of gas plus tolls), so I told her I needed $25 for rehearsal. I found out the location of the gig was in an area where I would need to park in a garage or lot so asked for $25 to cover parking as well. So I got $100 total. I wasn't about to waste all of the pay on parking, gas and tolls.
My brother-in-law is a drummer in a top-level touring act, but he is just a hired musician. The act as a whole might earn $150K for a show. The "star" earns the majority of that, the rest pays for expenses and the hired musicians. The hired musicians might make $1000 each for a show. They also get their time and expenses paid for rehearsals. Most of them also have ways to earn income outside the band to make ends meet.
I am in a couple of cover bands that are essentially serious hobby bands. We play because we enjoy it, and we all have jobs outside the band. We don't get paid to practice or rehearse, and we split gig money evenly.
Different levels of "pro", and different pay standards.
I am in a couple of cover bands that are essentially serious hobby bands. We play because we enjoy it, and we all have jobs outside the band. We don't get paid to practice or rehearse, and we split gig money evenly.
Different levels of "pro", and different pay standards.
I know several musicians in my area who do only music for a living. However, they don't gig very much due to the 'conditions' they impose. If you're that good, you should be a 'PRO' playing pro gigs and not weekend warrior gigs. Kinda tough to fulfill those kind of demands when the gigs only pay $300-$600 total. Bars ain't paying living wages.
Cool. I'm not a union player, not much advantage to that in this area. I am fulltime. I guess I don't look at it as what I deserve so much as what the market will bear. Which is why I live and work here. I look at it as I'm performing at the highest level for the job and my compensation should reflect that. It's that simple. I also know that alot of the groups that I work with make serious money and if I'm contributing to the package that is bringing in those dollars I could be a chump... or a pro.
As far as what about the other members, here's one of my favorite stories: I played with a wedding/corporate band for several years and decided I needed a raise or change of scenery. So I laid out in an email my positive attributes that lead me to needing better compensation more. The BL wholeheartedly agreed with all my points and said she wished she could do something but couldn't afford to give everyone a raise. My response?:
"Cool... I wasn't asking for everyone".
I got the raise. I was also asked to be music director. Which came with another bump.
I'm responsible for me. If someone else isn't motivated to ask for more, cool.
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