Double Bass Warming up the bass?

[jsbarber]

Well, I will. The experiment is just so fraught with bias, though.

It may also depend on the construction of the bass - laminated verses carved. My data is on carved instruments, and was for arco playing - in fact the bow may be warming up to some extent also. I know it grips better after a couple of minutes of playing, which I assumed was temperature affecting the adhesion of the rosin.

Jim

 

[Dbassmon]

On the face of it, it sounds like mumbo jumbo. The molocules have to get moving. It just seems to have no basis in any kind of scientific reason. That being said, two people I respect very much, Bill Merchant, Luthier, and Mike Richmond, Bassist and teacher believe this stuff. These are two very accomplished people that I would characterize as "guys that would know", say yes the instrument is more responsive after the sound board has been in motion for a period of time. I'm not convinced but I'm certainly not willing to say it's not possible.

 

[damonsmith]

It has to do with Tuning the wood over time. Sawing away at the Harmonics helps as well. If a particular harmonic won't speak will really saw away at it and see what happens - it should loosen right up and sing clearly. I leave the bass in front of my speakers so the vibrations keep it loose and responsive. It seems to work.

 

[drurb]

It may also depend on the construction of the bass - laminated verses carved. My data is on carved instruments, and was for arco playing - in fact the bow may be warming up to some extent also. I know it grips better after a couple of minutes of playing, which I assumed was temperature affecting the adhesion of the rosin.

Jim

Now that DOES make sense. I can try it out as I do have a fully-carved.

 

[drurb]

It has to do with Tuning the wood over time. Sawing away at the Harmonics helps as well. If a particular harmonic won't speak will really saw away at it and see what happens - it should loosen right up and sing clearly. I leave the bass in front of my speakers so the vibrations keep it loose and responsive. It seems to work.

Well, if that makes you happy... Think about the impedance mismatch, though. In terms of vibrating the wood, playing sound at the bass is certainly nothing like when it produces the sound.

 

[Ike Harris]

Well, if that makes you happy... Think about the impedance mismatch, though. In terms of vibrating the wood, playing sound at the bass is certainly nothing like when it produces the sound.

I'm not a scientist or play one on TV, I'm an old bass player who loves to hear old basses. I think there's something to the old instrument theory. Of course I'm biased, but my Dad's old '41 Martin sounds better than any of the others to me. And did you ever see Ray Brown with anything other than a bass with a Gazillion cracks in it? My 6 year old Kolstein sounds much better now than it did when it came out of the crate. I think a good wooden instrument's sound will continue to mold itself to your sound the longer you play it - can't explain it scientifically, but like the guy said, it's about tuning the wood over time.

Ike

 

[Matthew Tucker]

DRURB,

what "over time" means??

well ... you could look at it this way ... short term stimulation has a short-term effect, hence the "warm up" effect.

Long term stimulation, "playing in" over tens or hundreds of years has a long term effect, the mysterious "master bass" effect.

Lots of things work that way.

 

[drurb]

DRURB,

what "over time" means??

well ... you could look at it this way ... short term stimulation has a short-term effect, hence the "warm up" effect.

Long term stimulation, "playing in" over tens or hundreds of years has a long term effect, the mysterious "master bass" effect.

Lots of things work that way.

I didn't ask what over time means. I said as long as you mean decades with the possible exception of what might occur with new basses over the shorter term.

I'm not convinced there is a substantial "warm up" effect that has anything to do with the bass. I think the variance would be explained by changes in the player during warm up.

Now, with regard to the long-term effects, that does make sense to me.

 

[Matthew Tucker]

I'm not convinced there is a substantial "warm up" effect that has anything to do with the bass. I think the variance would be explained by changes in the player during warm up. Now, with regard to the long-term effects, that does make sense to me.

OK. But if we all need to produce empirical evidence to support our opinions we're not going to get very far here are we?

cheers MT

 

[damonsmith]

Well, if that makes you happy... Think about the impedance mismatch, though. In terms of vibrating the wood, playing sound at the bass is certainly nothing like when it produces the sound.

Obviously, but it is where I keep it when it is not being played, you can feel the vibration by touching the top, specially when it hears itself (on one of my recordings).

 

[M Ramsey]

Obviously, but it is where I keep it when it is not being played, you can feel the vibration by touching the top, specially when it hears itself (on one of my recordings).

I'm with Damon on this one. The bass itself is a configuration of wooden parts and it could care less where the vibrations are coming from, whether it be exposed to them through a set of nearby speakers or someone playing the bass itself for hours upon end.

I know I have to work a job and if I had a carved bass with a "tight" sound, I could vibrate it all day with the speakers whilst I was off to the workplace.

Not to change the discussion, but differences in humidity also play a factor in an instrument with regards to tone and volume.

 

[stillborn86]

Taking from my experience from band class in school, I know that a warm-up effects everything. I played the trumpet and baritone and realized that a warm-up help loosen my lips and helped my ohmature. I could only imagine that this is the case with my wrists when I play my bass. I certainly <b>feel</b> looser and able to move more freely.

The material making my trumpet and the shiny coating also settled into a more playable situation after a warm-up. Right out of the case it was brittle sounding and almost impossible to play in some cases. Again, I <b>feel</b> this same case from my bass and strings. I guess the neck and strings settle into a less playable position after they settle on their own and haven't been played in a while.

So in all, to me, I can feel a difference between playing right out of the case and after a warm-up. This little exercise doesn't affect one thing individually, but the entire setup as a whole.

 

[stillborn86]

I spelled embouchure wrong. I spelled it phonetically and not correctly.

 

[Norwegianwood]

Well, with horns, you are also literary speaking warming the material up when you blow.(Well, unless you'r a total n00b and use wrong technique. ) It sure is a lot more easy to produce nice sound on a warm flute than a cold one. I'm not sure if that's got anything with the material's sound quality changing, though, as much as the interaction between lips and mouthpiece.

 

[shwashwa]

i think warming up the bass definately does help.. but i dont think it's the wood, i think its the strings. my strings feel tight and the bass feels choked when i first pick it up, but once i get the strings moving, it opens up. vibration creates heat, and as you bow, it was mentioned that the bow heats up, and i'm sure that the string actually heats up as well, even if its just from the heat coming off the bow. think of trying to stretch a frozen rubber band versus a warm one... which one will stretch better? a little bit of unscientific evidence to support this, my bass is in my basement which is usually cold (60 degrees). when i warm up the room prior to practice (to about 70 degrees) the bass is noticably easier to play and it speaks better. i dont need to bow it as much as when i dont warm up the room. that's a definate and measureable 10 degree difference, and i can feel it in the bass. i think the bowing has a similar effect, getting the strings to actually warm up and get more loose. i dont think it's voodoo, i just think it's cold stiff strings, at least in my case.

 

[arnoldschnitzer]

I'm not convinced there is a substantial "warm up" effect that has anything to do with the bass.

Meanwhile, many concert violinists and cellists have their students warm up their instruments for them. And in my work, I do hear a slight difference in a bass after several minutes of vigorous playing, even when the player changes. It's all a mystery to me.

 

[Matthew Tucker]

its not inconceivable that the table of a bass not only perfoms the function of a diaphragm, like a drumskin, but reacts to playing and humidity in the same way as a hide drumskin gets looser as you play it, or tightens up (and pitch rises) if you heat/dry the skin.

That sort of movement in a bass top, made of cellulose, lignin, chitin and gelatine - albeit on a different scale - quite probably has an effect on the sound observed by many people, and this will of course alter the way the strings feel too.

 

[drurb]

I'm with Damon on this one. The bass itself is a configuration of wooden parts and it could care less where the vibrations are coming from, whether it be exposed to them through a set of nearby speakers or someone playing the bass itself for hours upon end.

From the point of view of physics, it cares very much. My point was that the amount of vibration imparted to the wood is far greater when it is played than when it is exposed to vibrations emanating from a loudspeaker unless, of course, that loudspeaker is producing some outrageously high level.

 

[drurb]

i think warming up the bass definately does help.. but i dont think it's the wood, i think its the strings.

This seems to make a great deal of sense.

 

[drurb]

Meanwhile, many concert violinists and cellists have their students warm up their instruments for them. And in my work, I do hear a slight difference in a bass after several minutes of vigorous playing, even when the player changes. It's all a mystery to me.

Thank you. I asked earlier about having someone else warm up the instrument. It seems that is, in fact, a practice that is used. Do you think it is the strings or the wood or both?