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Warning! Do Not Buy Cheap Speakon Cables

#21
Keyser Soze said:
Do Not Buy Cheap Speakon Cables
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean, could you be a bit more clear?

I agree by the way. Never had the misfortune of dealing with something like you described but have been a voice against cheap/badly constructed cables for a while now. My current workplace has a lot of cables run under floors and in the ceiling. They also run the cheapest, tiniest gauge wires I've ever seen. Most of it works with audio equipment and it's been a real chore to get them to test all of the cables after the off season. Not checking has cost over $10,000 so far with no sign of getting cheaper. This is especially fun after monsoon season.
 
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#22
Let me step in here for a minute... the OP has IMO been very gracious in sharing his experience with us for the benefit of everybody in this community. That takes quite a bit of humility and willingness to step up to the plate and "take one for the team" so to speak.

I have discussed this industry wide problem several times and every time there are a couple of members who suggest that I am making this stuff up. Clearly, I'm not as I have helped several members here with this exact issue and not just on our products but on ANY product that uses SpeakOn connectors (including our competitors). This is truly an INDUSTRY problem rather than any single amp/speaker manufacturer problem.

In the case of this particular problem (and a few others recently), the keys on the plug were molded undersize (both in diameter and in width) so that it was quite easy to install the plug backwards (180 degrees off) in the jack. Normally the keyways in the jack would reject this but there wasn't enough meat on the plug's keys to do so. Once the connector got twisted to lock, they got hung up on the machined reveal in the back of the housing and it wouldn't easily find its way back out. The difference in thickness of the key between the genuine plug and the knock-off was about 40%. This brand the OP confirmed was Monoprice (a generic "cable & accessory house"), and has been the source of many of the plugs that we have had to surgically remove from amplifiers. This is both time consuming and costly for us and is also costly and inconvenient for the customers. It is entirely avoidable by insisting on genuine neutrik plugs.

While it might appear that this was a user error, and in part it was, it would not have happened with a genuine plug because that's the entire purpose of the rejection keys (one is wide and the other is narrow). In fact, I tried a genuine plug in his amp just to verify and it would not go in backwards.

I posted a couple months ago about how the contact assemblies on another knockoff plug came apart inside the jack and bent one of the contact fingers back and bent the rest of the contact assembly. This caused what first appeared to be an intermittent, defective amp but in the end was a damaged jack.

This is not unlike the challenges we had years ago with 1/4" plugs that had "unique" tip profiles, some so poorly designed that they would crush the leading edge of the contacts on some jacks. There was also the oversized and undersized plug sleeves that would either get stuck, damage the jack or bend the guts that would then make other plugs intermittent. The rule back then was to stick with Switchcraft and Neutrik plugs!

I hope this information is helpful to everybody here.

SpeakOn Damage.JPG
 
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#23
agedhorse said:
Let me step in here for a minute... the OP has IMO been very gracious in sharing his experience with us for the benefit of everybody in this community. That takes quite a bit of humility and willingness to step up to the plate and "take one for the team" so to speak.

I have discussed this industry wide problem several times and every time there are a couple of members who suggest that I am making this stuff up. Clearly, I'm not as I have helped several members here with this exact issue and not just on our products but on ANY product that uses SpeakOn connectors (including our competitors). This is truly an INDUSTRY problem rather than any single amp/speaker manufacturer problem.

In the case of this particular problem (and a few others recently), the keys on the plug were molded undersize (both in diameter and in width) so that it was quite easy to install the plug backwards (180 degrees off) in the jack. Normally the keyways in the jack would reject this but there wasn't enough meat on the plug's keys to do so. Once the connector got twisted to lock, they got hung up on the machined reveal in the back of the housing and it wouldn't easily find its way back out. The difference in thickness of the key between the genuine plug and the knock-off was about 40%. This brand the OP confirmed was Monoprice (a generic "cable & accessory house"), and has been the source of many of the plugs that we have had to surgically remove from amplifiers. This is both time consuming and costly for us and is also costly and inconvenient for the customers. It is entirely avoidable by insisting on genuine neutrik plugs.

While it might appear that this was a user error, and in part it was, it would not have happened with a genuine plug because that's the entire purpose of the rejection keys (one is wide and the other is narrow). In fact, I tried a genuine plug in his amp just to verify and it would not go in backwards.

I posted a couple months ago about how the contact assemblies on another knockoff plug came apart inside the jack and bent one of the contact fingers back and bent the rest of the contact assembly. This caused what first appeared to be an intermittent, defective amp but in the end was a damaged jack.

This is not unlike the challenges we had years ago with 1/4" plugs that had "unique" tip profiles, some so poorly designed that they would crush the leading edge of the contacts on some jacks. There was also the oversized and undersized plug sleeves that would either get stuck, damage the jack or bend the guts that would then make other plugs intermittent. The rule back then was to stick with Switchcraft and Neutrik plugs!

I hope this information is helpful to everybody here.

View attachment 3984004
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
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#24
Just as a friendly reminder, I would caution all TB members against checking out a new cable (of any type) by simply plugging it into an expensive amp or cabinet (you define "expensive").
This has been a contributing factor to many unplanned magic smoke releases, in violation of EPA guidelines.
Always check new cables with a meter to ensure proper polarity, continuity, and intermittent contact when flexing the cable throughout its length.
Nothing is more expensive than bad cables, whether they cost a lot or not. :thumbsup:
 
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#25
I am a notorious cheapskate but I also believe in doing things right the first time. Thanks for the tip.

EDIT: thanks for chiming in, @agedhorse . Trying to remember who had those "unique" tips - was it the Planet Waves before D'Addario took over? Because I've got a newish PW cable that's given be no grief but I remember the old ones (pre-2012ish?) That were pretty dicey. I also like Monoprice for home theater gear but I'd never use their stuff in a situation where brand (Neutrik, in this case!) Mattered. Thanks again, everyone.
 
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#26
2tonic said:
Just as a friendly reminder, I would caution all TB members against checking out a new cable (of any type) by simply plugging it into an expensive amp or cabinet (you define "expensive").
This has been a contributing factor to many unplanned magic smoke releases, in violation of EPA guidelines.
Always check new cables with a meter to ensure proper polarity, continuity, and intermittent contact when flexing the cable throughout its length.
Nothing is more expensive than bad cables, whether they cost a lot or not. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


Invalid Link Removed
 
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#32
Thanks for the PSA, hopefully it can prevent someone else having the same mishap.

Me, I will not use anything but Neutrik on my amp, cabs and basses (valid for all ins and outs, 1/4", speakon, XLR). I'm going to come out as a huge nerd, but their connectors are possibly my favourite pieces of engineering. They look simple, but a LOT of thought went into these. From the mechanical design, to material selection, data sheet/assembly instructions, and even the packaging. There is no such thing as perfection, but these must be pretty darn close.
 
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#33
Keyser Soze said:
I see myself as a cagey veteran, not a guy who makes rookie mistakes. But sometimes my inner cheapskate prevails and I impulse-buy something whose use is not gonna end well, is gonna blow up in my face and make me feel ashamed. I do something that, as my mom used to say, "I should know better."

I get these emails, "Stupid Deal of the Day" type things, from various places I've done business with. There is a large company who carved out their space in the marketplace selling computer cables for cheap. They lasso'd the enterprise market and became a giant company. They have broadened their product line to all kinds of electronic-related products, including musical instrument amps and cables and now just about every kind of consumer electronics.

Their sale item that bit me was; Two 3' Speakon Cables for $9.99 shipped. "Spares," I thought. "I can use some spares."

When they arrived, I thought, "Lemme try 'em out, make sure they're OK." So I unplug the Speakon between my Acoustic Image amp and my EA Wizzy cab and insert the speakon into both, reaching around the back in both cases, doing it by feel. Power it up, no sound. Hmmmm. Try the other one; same thing, no sound. Weird.

So I think, "Let me try them in my Mesa Subway 800+ into my Fearful 112 cab." So I plug one in, fire up the amp; Bingo! Sound. "Lemme try the other one," I think. I unplug the cable from the cab. When I try to unplug it from the back of the amp; it won't budge. It'll only turn 1/8th of a turn, not 1/4 like it's supposed to. I try -- gently but firmly -- for a few minutes and get nowhere.

"Lemme call my tech," I think, so I do. His shop's closed. Hmmm, Google is my friend.

Uh-oh. Lots threads about Speakons getting stuck. Cheap Speakons getting stuck. And no happy endings about removing them. I see TB's beloved @Killed_by_Death warning folks not to buy cheap Speakons. Too late for me.

I have a brainstorm. PM our sage TBer @agedhorse, who designed my amp. Surely he's gonna know about this issue, what to do.

So I PM him. And he responds very quickly. With his permission, here's his reply, only slightly abridged;

What has probably happened is that the internal contact assembly on the plug came loose or was bent or improperly formed during manufacturing and has become intertwined with the mating contact assembly. I posted a picture of what the damage to the amp’s connector looks like.

Removing the connector is difficult without damaging the amp’s sheet metal, and the now damaged amp’s connector(s) must be replaced.

I have built some special tooling to do this without damaging the amp. It’s called the "Xonoxoxo (insert the manufacturer of MY cable here) plug removal tool" and it’s seen more use than I wish.

He tells me to send him the amp, which I do. He fixes it very, very quickly and now it's on it's way back across the country to me.

@agedhorse (Andy) saved my butt. Now I'm trying to save yours:

Warning! Do Not Buy Cheap Speakon Cables

I hope Andy will chime in with the appropriate clarity, which I lack. but in the meantime;

Warning! Do Not Buy Cheap Speakon Cables
Click to expand...

I know exactly what "large company" you're referring to. I bought a Speakon from them years ago as a backup. Tried it once and something definitely did not seem right, so I trashed it. I'll still buy other cables from them from time to time (HDMI, patch cables, etc), but Speakon? Never again.
 
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#34
friskinator said:
I know exactly what "large company" you're referring to. I bought a Speakon from them years ago as a backup. Tried it once and something definitely did not seem right, so I trashed it. I'll still buy other cables from them from time to time (HDMI, patch cables, etc), but Speakon? Never again.
Click to expand...

Andy ratted 'em out in his post.

Like you, I've bought all kinds of cables... and more, from them over the years, almost exclusively without issue.

I've come to think they might be kinda like Harbor Freight; If it can't hurt you, OK, buy it (e.g., tape measure.) If it can hurt you (e.g., band saw) run awaaaaay!
 
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#35
I feel for the original poster. I would be so upset having something happen to my gear from using a budget cable. I know you generally get what you pay for, but you don’t necessarily have an expectation that something will break from using budget items.

For anyone who is interested, it is pretty easy to make your own SpeakON cables. I buy genuine Neutrik connectors (NL2FC or NL4FL will do for regular 2 conductor speaker cable) and put them on 12 gauge speaker cable. You can get the cable by buying in bulk or buying a long quality pre-made cable and cutting it into the lengths you need. It might seem foolhardy to buy a speaker cable to hack up, but a 50’ cable can yield several backups (depending on length needed), and heavy gauge speaker cable with 1/4 inch plugs is less expensive than buying the same cable with SpeakONs already attached (bulk is even less expensive, but might be in higher quantity than you want or need). I turned a 50’ of 12 gauge speaker into 5 cables, two of them retaining the 1/4” plugs at one end because I need them for an older amp. Another “middle” segment was used to create a double-banana plug to SpeakON cable.

There is a great video on making SpeakON cables on YouTube. Just search for How to Wire Neutrik SpeakON cables.
 
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#36
Keyser Soze said:
I see myself as a cagey veteran, not a guy who makes rookie mistakes. But sometimes my inner cheapskate prevails and I impulse-buy something whose use is not gonna end well, is gonna blow up in my face and make me feel ashamed. I do something that, as my mom used to say, "I should know better."

I get these emails, "Stupid Deal of the Day" type things, from various places I've done business with. There is a large company who carved out their space in the marketplace selling computer cables for cheap. They lasso'd the enterprise market and became a giant company. They have broadened their product line to all kinds of electronic-related products, including musical instrument amps and cables and now just about every kind of consumer electronics.

Their sale item that bit me was; Two 3' Speakon Cables for $9.99 shipped. "Spares," I thought. "I can use some spares."

When they arrived, I thought, "Lemme try 'em out, make sure they're OK." So I unplug the Speakon between my Acoustic Image amp and my EA Wizzy cab and insert the speakon into both, reaching around the back in both cases, doing it by feel. Power it up, no sound. Hmmmm. Try the other one; same thing, no sound. Weird.

So I think, "Let me try them in my Mesa Subway 800+ into my Fearful 112 cab." So I plug one in, fire up the amp; Bingo! Sound. "Lemme try the other one," I think. I unplug the cable from the cab. When I try to unplug it from the back of the amp; it won't budge. It'll only turn 1/8th of a turn, not 1/4 like it's supposed to. I try -- gently but firmly -- for a few minutes and get nowhere.

"Lemme call my tech," I think, so I do. His shop's closed. Hmmm, Google is my friend.

Uh-oh. Lots threads about Speakons getting stuck. Cheap Speakons getting stuck. And no happy endings about removing them. I see TB's beloved @Killed_by_Death warning folks not to buy cheap Speakons. Too late for me.

I have a brainstorm. PM our sage TBer @agedhorse, who designed my amp. Surely he's gonna know about this issue, what to do.

So I PM him. And he responds very quickly. With his permission, here's his reply, only slightly abridged;

What has probably happened is that the internal contact assembly on the plug came loose or was bent or improperly formed during manufacturing and has become intertwined with the mating contact assembly. I posted a picture of what the damage to the amp’s connector looks like.

Removing the connector is difficult without damaging the amp’s sheet metal, and the now damaged amp’s connector(s) must be replaced.

I have built some special tooling to do this without damaging the amp. It’s called the "Xonoxoxo (insert the manufacturer of MY cable here) plug removal tool" and it’s seen more use than I wish.

He tells me to send him the amp, which I do. He fixes it very, very quickly and now it's on it's way back across the country to me.

@agedhorse (Andy) saved my butt. Now I'm trying to save yours:

Warning! Do Not Buy Cheap Speakon Cables

I hope Andy will chime in with the appropriate clarity, which I lack. but in the meantime;

Warning! Do Not Buy Cheap Speakon Cables
Click to expand...
 
#38
pingvuiini said:
Are ProCo and Hosa brands OK?? Or should I use $$$$ brands like Mogami and Lava??
Click to expand...
I bought these HOSA ones - they have Neutrik connectors:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000068O8E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The ones you're looking for actually say "Neutrik" on the metal part of the connector. The cable brand itself matters far less than the connector, and the connector makes up the majority of the manufacturer's material costs. For a good reason!
 
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