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Warning message to guitarist - how did I do?

#21
oniman7 said:
I would have as well, but there were a couple of reasons I didn't.
First of all, I wanted to wait for the full band to be there if I was going to take that route. However, we're playing a BOTB at my school (which has been our pinnacle goal for months). We only have 3 weeks left, we're finishing our setlist, but we need every bit we can get. I didn't want to wait any longer to get this settled, because it's caused us to waste too much time already.

Also, to be quite frank, I don't think I would have been able to get all of that out straight without him arguing it or twisting it or bringing me off topic. I was able to get all of my thoughts out uninterrupted this way.
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Ah... so it seems you're a younger guy. Perhaps text isn't all that bad. It took me awhile before I was able to continuously drive home a point without getting sidetracked by an argumentative person (bandmate, employee, etc.).

You'll undoubtedly have an in person conversation regarding this message. I'd suggest a neutral place. Getting away from the area where the tension is most prevalent is good if possible. Make sure you stay on point. Don't let the conversation shift towards placing blame elsewhere. Many times the person will attempt to assign blame to another person and/or a random set of circumstances. Stay true with your message and remain calm. This is especially important since you eluded to this individual being a bit of a loose cannon. I predict that this person will attempt to push your buttons. Also, mention the good things along with the bad (like you did in your message).

Hope it works out. Bandmate relationships can be weird.
 
#25
That's another issue we've had. We all play rock of some sort. But the rest of the band is all influenced by metal, and we end up churning out heavier alternative stuff. If it gives you an idea, our cover setlist has included My Chemical Romance, Rise Against, Porcupine Tree, and Dio. While influenced by heavier bands (Tool, Avenged Sevenfold, Lamb of God), we end up playing what I would call watered down versions of some of that. some of the same stylings, but not nearly as heavy in most cases.

The guitarist on the other hand, while he plays a lot of classical and such, looks up to guitar legends. His heroes are Satriani, Vai, Malmsteen, Clapton, etc. He essentially has two modes: Blues/funk, and shred. I imagine that's where some of his frustration comes from.
 
#27
Guitarist's response
ok
-i think you listed attitude multiple times in different ways
-just so you know i am a highly reactive person
-i will tell you this developed after years of dealing with my older sisters constantly criticizing every little thing i ever did EVER when i was younger
--now i know i need to deal with this and fix it on my own but please remember that certain childhood scenario's make people a bit agressive when they feel cornered
-i've been working on tasteful, selective, playing where i focus on melody as melody and solo as solo
-which brings me to one more thing, i hear you guys call a melodic line a solo a lot, i am not steve vai or joe satriani, so my melodic lines are as defined as theirs (yet) but i would appreciate you guys at least trying to to differentiate because when someone calls a melody a solo (which i know in many songs they are the same, but not quite as much the way i (and my idols) play) it is similar to me saying all a bassist does is play arpeggios
-i am always trying to think of places for william to solo, just because i don't point out any doesn't mean that i don't think about it
-on that, i am more than willing to give william solo time, but if i miss something, then it is up to him, you, michael, or emily to speek up and say, "hey, why doesn't will throw a solo in here?"
- i completely and totaly agree about my sloppiness
-in fact if you didn't notice i was more professional on wednsday mainly just because i've been writing music that i myself cannot play (i line using over the neck tapping, rythm in weird time signatures, really fast licks) anyway, i've been rearranging my practice schedule to make my playing cleaner
-i don't think i forgot anything....oh yeah, you mentioned arroganance in there somewhere, i'll try to work on that but expect less progress in that department while i'm working on everything else
-and finally, i would like to be more focused during band practices (like wednsday) and i think that means we need to lock michael's computer away if we aren't using it for recording just because it usually starts off with emily trying to have fun when she's not singing or lyric writing, then we get involved and we waste a lot of time
and i believe if we have a slightly more professional environment then our interpersonal relationships will be improved
also, if you don't mind me saying, i think you should push your lyrics more if emily isn't writing them (i know she is but if you already have some we should use them), i mean why waste what we have?
anyway, thanks for bringing these things to my attention
i will work on them and i apologize for causing trouble
and i hope you guys will help me out a little bit
don't expect me to change if i don't get a little bit of help


also, this is less relevant, (herein "it" means a line/concept i have created)
i find i feel most offended and agressive when you say "it's not us" or "it's too (insert style here)"
i would aprecciate you either being more specificin where/why it won't work or if you would at least try it and see how we can change it to make it work better for our band
i say this because it feels like you have shot down all of my ideas except one or two
it is actually because of that reasoning that i was so unacceptably hostile on sunday, i didn't like that feeling of perpetual "no"
anyway...
oh yeah that's it!
the wording i would aprecciate it if you would use when i have and idea that is too bluesy or jazzy or classical or something is
"i think that would be better suited for a solo project"
or
"i think you should hold on to that for a different scenario"
or (only if it is utterly terrible)
"i don't see how that can be used, maybe you should rework it and bring it back later"

i hope i got everything i need in there...
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...And my counter response
I'm willing to work with you on everything if you're willing to work with me open mindedly. Any problem that I would classify as a personality issue I would much rather be fixed first. Everything else can be fixed if we can do that.

As far as more productive, I agree with you 100%. I will also be sending Emily a message concerning her lyrical writing and singing shyness. I'm ready to move past that now. We'll consider making computer use a band rule later on.

Also, as far as musical frustration goes, I understand how you feel. HOWEVER, there is one thing I need you to know. Our styles offer an interesting juxtaposition. But a lot of the music you love is simply not our style. There are going to be many times when we can work this into the band dynamic. there are also going to be many times when it simply will not work because it's a different style. I understand it's not what you want to play, but that's how the band dynamic is playing. It's comparable to me playing bass in a country band and to play Rock licks inside of it
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What do you think? Also, we agreed through chat that the problem wasn't that I was telling him his lines weren't working, but that when I said "it's not us" it was making him feel detached.
 
#29
I don't see anything wrong in what you wrote (either in your first message or response). Maybe the collective silence is Talkbass trying to decipher your guitarist's response.....

Anyway, it just sounds to me like your band is going to need to make a concious effort to be unified in how to run practice and what sound you're going for. I wouldn't be convinced that your problems with your guitarist are over and done, but it at least looks like you can move forward toward that BOTB for now.
 
#30
The guitarist's response is a tad confusing. "Yeah I'm a jerk and I'm arrogant and my playing is sloppy and I blame my personal issues on others but give me another chance." He would've been out of myy band a LONG time ago.

And I think you handled it great. Much more mature than when I threw a drumstick at a guitarist and told him to "Get the **** out of my house."
 
#32
-No more yelling at people in general.
-No more telling people that something is "between me and X". If it has to do with the band, it's a whole band issue. If it is completely unrelated to the band, music, instruments, etc. then you can say that.
-No more hitting/violent touching (this includes the Vulcan death grip)
-No more threats of breaking things, killing people, etc. (joking or not)
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Excuse me, if the above descriptions are true, IMO, you gotta get away from this guy.:hyper:

He admits he has problems but no one in your band is capable of dealing with someone like that. IME, he needs serious professional help/medication. :atoz:

Run, Forest, Run....
 
#34
I find any other response than, "yes, thank you for your feedback, I never saw it that way, i'll work on it" as bad.

Especially, "Yes, i know what you are talking about, but this-is-who-i-am or who-someone-else-made-me, and I can try to fix it but I probably won't be successful / will take a long time to address it."

Double especially, "I was an ass on Sunday because I felt you shot down my ideas." I read that as "baby me or it's your fault i go ape****-nuclear."
 
#35
oniman7 said:
. However, we're playing a BOTB at my school (which has been our pinnacle goal for months). We only have 3 weeks left, we're finishing our setlist, but we need every bit we can get. I didn't want to wait any longer to get this settled, because it's caused us to waste too much time already.
Click to expand...

Wow, you pulled this out 3 weeks before......I kinda would have delt with it until AFTER.
Unless you can pull off your show without him.
 
#38
I thought that your guitarists response was pretty positive. He knows there are problems, knows what they are, and is willing to try and make them better. Also he was given the chance to explain why he's been difficult and hot-tempered(not the whole childhood issues malarky,more the way he and his ideas were being spoken to/about). Obviously you cant really know if any of it means anything until some time has passed, and you can see if he really does work on improving, but as far as words go, those ones seem pretty positive.
 
#39
I think for any age, especially being so young, you handled it great. To pull all your thoughts together clear, concise and cohesively is astounding.

I have 30 year old employees who can't do that.

Things are great in person but the new world is email and text and facebook and atm machines and self check out lanes and and and

Great job, study theory, stay away from drugs and kill em all at the BOTB (figuratively speaking, that is)
 
#40
oniman7 said:
As far as the violence goes, he's never actually hit anybody, but has a tendency to use pressure points adn stuff because he enjoys it for some reason. I expect he's working his way out of the band, but I wanted to give him a chance to work with us first.
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Umm, just saying, if he walks around performing pressure points on people, this guys going to end up getting beat.. Some guitarid decide's he's going to use his Jedi Move's on me, I will literally break his face... No warning, just the sound of some stupid kids skull bouncing off a wall.
 

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