Warwick Hellborg High-End Bass Amps

[Musicavenger]

Hi to Everyone.

This post is to share my experience over the Years with this obscure & misunderstood
line of Amplifiers that put the Warwick company in a difficult situation.

This was an overpriced amplifier even with its great features and arrived too late to a market that moved to Lightweight Portable Amps.
Warwick gave lots of this amps to their endorsers at the time and expected us to pay for them? No Thanks, I like them but you are just taking the piss, Bass Players are not Millionaire Audiophiles...
Because of that, this product was a failure for Warwick that ended up selling them for less than half of its original price at Thomann in German in 2019...

The first time I heard a Hellborg Amp was in 2010 at a Larry Graham concert in London and was shocked by the sound of it......It was a Big Rig anyway, one Big Cab on each side of the Stage as a Side Fill and more amps at the back of the Stage and the Bass sound coming from the Stage was much better than the sound coming from the PA.
It was like that in the Good old Days, Big Bass Amps filling the Hall but now Bass Players go to gigs with tinny little DI boxes with a speaker in it.........and then the Bass Sound is at the Mercy of the quality of the PA and its operator........

I was lucky enough to purchase the Hellborg Amp that was owned by Jack Bruce and used on his last record Silver Rails, recorded at Abbey Road Studios.

After that, I started buying every piece of Hellborg Gear that came on eBay ending up with the full Hellborg Line, including the very rare and early discontinued Mono Power Amp 250.

My Favourite Cab of all the line is the extended range Dual Cone 2x12" Hi Cab that has more low end than the supposedly stand-alone Club Cab that should bear the Hi Cab Name because of its coaxial speaker...

A friend of mine came to my studio very excited to show me his latest purchase at the Bass Gallery in London: a Barefaced 2x10" cab that when we compare it to the Hellborg Hi Cab was knocked to the ground making him going back to the shop with his tail between his legs to ask for a return... (the Barefaced ******** slapped on its own Bare Face...) a subject for another thread...

Having the Club Cab and Lo Cab Set from Jack Bruce, I compared it with the Big Cab I just purchased and was very disappointed with it because having exactly the same Drivers its performance was very Low on Volume and Bass...............

Something is not Right here and opened to see what's going on in there.....

On opening, I found this kind of isobaric design but in a vented chamber that is a mix of an isobaric and bandpass design and the Bottom Speaker facing upwards on the same vented chamber as the back of the Top Speaker and decided to change the polarity of it and problem solved (it was in phase with the other speaker but out of phase in the chamber pushing air against the top speaker.....

Then I found out that the Top Speaker is a TF1525CX same as on the Club Cab (OEM for Warwick that is just a TF1525 with a built-in CDX1-1425 High-Frequency Driver) rated at 250w with 98 dB sensitivity and the Bottom Speaker is a TF 1530 rated at 400w with 99 dB Sensitivity connected in parallel with the other one...

That doesn't make any sense since you are limiting the capacity of the Bottom Speaker to the capacity of the Top One making this Cab very Low on Bass Response.

So I decided to connect them separate to the back panel on individual Speakon connectors to have a compact version of the Lo Cab, Club Cab Setup with individual volume control for each on the Stereo Power 250 Amplifier.

The problem with Artist design products is that they are made for their specific needs and Jonas needs are not mine......I'm a Rock Bass Player who doesn't play slap and He is a Fusion Player that plays a (Bass?) that only have a bridge pickup... and that's exactly the pickup I never use........

But I'm thankful to Him for convincing Warwick to Make a High-End Bass Amp That I can Modify to my needs...

If anyone needs some advice on this system please ask, I tried every combination of its components and modified some of them to suit my needs...

If you arrived at this Thread, you are on the way to the Best Bass Sound you can get with some adjustments to your special needs...

 

[JW56789]

I see these for sale (there's a guy with a complete set for sale in Nashville for 15k USD !), and I'd only say for that kind of money, there's lots of other choices.

 

[Musicavenger]

I see these for sale (there's a guy with a complete set for sale in Nashville for 15k USD !), and I'd only say for that kind of money, there's lots of other choices.

Yes, you have the choice of Buy it Much Cheaper.....

 

[el murdoque]

A friend of mine came to my studio very excited to show me his latest purchase at the Bass Gallery in London: a Barefaced 2x10" cab that when we compare it to the Hellborg Hi Cab was knocked to the ground making him going back to the shop with his tail between his legs to ask for a return... (the Barefaced ******** slapped on its own Bare Face...) a subject for another thread...

I'm indeed most interested in this bit. Thomann still has the Hellborg Hi cab, there's even a B-stock model right now for €255.
In what manner did the Hellborg cab beat the barefaced? I mean, comparing a rather large cabinet with 2x12" drivers that's well over 30kg against a rather compact 2x10 cab that's less than half the weight seems unfair, but barefaced is making some bold claims and on paper, the two10 should be the better cab.

It has a wider frequency response and can take a lot more power. The Hellborg takes 200W RMS while the two10 Takes 800. SPL (1W1m) only has a 2dB difference (Hellborg 100dB, two10 98dB), so the barefaced should go louder once you're hitting 400-500 Watts.

 

[Musicavenger]

I'm indeed most interested in this bit. Thomann still has the Hellborg Hi cab, there's even a B-stock model right now for €255.
In what manner did the Hellborg cab beat the barefaced? I mean, comparing a rather large cabinet with 2x12" drivers that's well over 30kg against a rather compact 2x10 cab that's less than half the weight seems unfair, but barefaced is making some bold claims and on paper, the two10 should be the better cab.

It has a wider frequency response and can take a lot more power. The Hellborg takes 200W RMS while the two10 Takes 800. SPL (1W1m) only has a 2dB difference (Hellborg 100dB, two10 98dB), so the barefaced should go louder once you're hitting 400-500 Watts.

Hi. Good Point on your question
The Warwick Hellborg specs are realistic and I know that 200w RMS 400w Peak sounds not too much for a Bass Cab and that's the reason they didn't sell and now you can get it for the money that only the drivers cost...

Barefaced publicity campaign is full of lies and false technical specs but is true they are light and if you knock the cabinets it sounds like a Percussion Cajon and that resonance is not good for a Bass.

On the other hand, I must assume that the weight-loudness ratio is very good but that doesn't mean that is a good Bass cabinet, reproduction of Clean Bass Frequencies needs a very solid structure as professional PA Sound systems shows and there's no way to make things light, powerful and Road Proof.

Barefaced is good for someone that must carry a gig bag, on one hand, and a full bass amp on the other hand up or down the stairs of a Jazz club without any Help.

Connect a 300w SVT amp to the Barefaced and see for how long it can handle half of its Power.....

Most Class D amps use the same fictitious measurements so they match to each other on the lightweight world...

My fellow Bass Players, I'm a professional Roadie that worked with very Big acts and had my own Music Shop, I tried every piece of Bass Gear and can tell you that the Musical Instruments Business is full of Bull**it...

If it sounds too good to be true........its a scam.....

Some Barefaced Cabs looks like cheap Chinese DJ Speakers...and some specialized Bass Shops don't stock them anymore because of the number of warranty claims from customers (blown speakers) that the builder doesn't want to honour...(because he thinks he is the best and is always the customer fault) just read what he writes about his own products and you will see what is called a fantasist...

But he is not lying about the weight, that's true it feels like a styrofoam cooler when you carry it...

 

[el murdoque]

Hi. Good Point on your question
The Warwick Hellborg specs are realistic and I know that 200w RMS 400w Peak sounds not too much for a Bass Cab and that's the reason they didn't sell and now you can get it for the money that only the drivers cost...

Barefaced publicity campaign is full of lies and false technical specs but is true they are light and if you knock the cabinets it sounds like a Percussion Cajon and that resonance is not good for a Bass.

On the other hand, I must assume that the weight-loudness ratio is very good but that doesn't mean that is a good Bass cabinet, reproduction of Clean Bass Frequencies needs a very solid structure as professional PA Sound systems shows and there's no way to make things light, powerful and Road Proof.

Barefaced is good for someone that must carry a gig bag, on one hand, and a full bass amp on the other hand up or down the stairs of a Jazz club without any Help.

Connect a 300w SVT amp to the Barefaced and see for how long it can handle half of its Power.....

Most Class D amps use the same fictitious measurements so they match to each other on the lightweight world...

My fellow Bass Players, I'm a professional Roadie that worked with very Big acts and had my own Music Shop, I tried every piece of Bass Gear and can tell you that the Musical Instruments Business is full of Bull**it...

If it sounds too good to be true........its a scam.....

Some Barefaced Cabs looks like cheap Chinese DJ Speakers...

...okay, now that you've got the barefaced bashing off your chest, could we go back to the facts?

The question was in what manner the Hellborg cabinet beat the two10.
It is larger and it is heavier, so it can only win in terms of sound.
What amp did you connect and what did the both of you like about the hellborg, where did the two10 fall short?

 

[Musicavenger]

If you are looking for something light don't go for the Hellborg speakers or Amps.....
Get some Good quality Neo Speaker from Mesa Boogie, Ampeg etc
for a single Speaker, 12" is the Best Choice or get a 2x10" if you don't play a 5 String Bass.
a B string needs 12" or 15" speakers to be reproduced clearly.

Unfortunately, I have to carry a heavy amp to have a heavy sound at my gigs.....

 

[GravyGoodness]

for a single Speaker, 12" is the Best Choice or get a 2x10" if you don't play a 5 String Bass.
a B string needs 12" or 15" speakers to be reproduced clearly.

Interesting, I had heard that for a long time starting when I had first got started playing, but in recent years everything I heard was contrary to that. Not saying either is right (I'm not an audio engineer) but it's just fascinating to me that how many strings you have dictates what driver diameter you need for good performance.

Makes you wonder what's actually right? Is there a right?

 

[ihixulu]

Popcorn time

Makes you wonder what's actually right? Is there a right?

seeing as how the physics don’t change on account of a person making tired claims, I think it’s right to say he is certainly not.

 

[Musicavenger]

Interesting, I had heard that for a long time starting when I had first got started playing, but in recent years everything I heard was contrary to that. Not saying either is right (I'm not an audio engineer) but it's just fascinating to me that how many strings you have dictates what driver diameter you need for good performance.

Makes you wonder what's actually right? Is there a right?

That's exactly the problem of this kind of forums, hearing so many different opinions only generates more confusion.
Only what is good for you and your needs is right, Is not how many strings your Bass have (your 5 string can be tuned to High C..) is how you tune them and the kind of sound you are looking for...

As a Double Bass Player, you should know that your instrument doesn't even reproduce the Low E string properly and most Double Bass players always play in the Mid to High register of the instrument...

You cant cheat Physics, the lower you play the more amount of air you need to move to get the same loudness and the more power you need from your amp...or get a 4/4 Double Bass as used in Classical Music orchestras instead of a 3/4 (Jazz Bass...)

 

[TonyP-]

The Hellborg preamp is designed off a Neve Console (RIP Mr. Neve who just passed)

I remember early in my playing days and the first sessions I was able to work at. The engineer I was working with was talking about going to NY to me and another guy about my age and experience. He was stoked to work with all this Neve gear. He looked at us and said, you guys might not hear what a Neve does but I will.
I think He was right, it took a bit.

Point being, not everyone might hear what the Jonas amplifiers can do, or at least right away.

 

[Musicavenger]

Popcorn time


seeing as how the physics don’t change on account of a person making tired claims, I think it’s right to say he is certainly not.

Exactly Physics don't change even if some manufactures claim that their products can do things that are not actually possible by the size, weight and components used on them.

This threat was opened to share my experience on the Warwick Hellborg System and not to open a debate on people's opinions about Bass Gear and Sound...

Unfortunately, Most Bass Players never had the opportunity to A/B test different amps in the same situation to have a valid opinion...

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything...

 

[Musicavenger]

The Hellborg preamp is designed off a Neve Console (RIP Mr. Neve who just passed)

I remember early in my playing days and the first sessions I was able to work at. The engineer I was working with was talking about going to NY to me and another guy about my age and experience. He was stoked to work with all this Neve gear. He looked at us and said, you guys might not hear what a Neve does but I will.
I think He was right, it took a bit.

Point being, not everyone might hear what the Jonas amplifiers can do, or at least right away.

That's Right, this is not a system for most Bass Players because the sound they already have in their heads was made with another kind of amplifiers and the classic Basses.

In the context of a live band is where this system really can be appreciated in the way that the sound cut through the other instruments making it clear.

But to be honest, is not 3 or 4 times better to justify its original asking price.

 

[31HZ]

It's one of a very select few pieces of gear that I have a feverish case of GAS for.

 

[chadds]

If you are looking for something light don't go for the Hellborg speakers or Amps.....
Get some Good quality Neo Speaker from Mesa Boogie, Ampeg etc
for a single Speaker, 12" is the Best Choice or get a 2x10" if you don't play a 5 String Bass.
a B string needs 12" or 15" speakers to be reproduced clearly.

Unfortunately, I have to carry a heavy amp to have a heavy sound at my gigs.....

i don’t favor 2X10s but I play 5 string through 8”s. I use every size. A speaker only works in a cab. The pairing is the item. You can’t generalize about what works.

 

[Musicavenger]

i don’t favor 2X10s but I play 5 string through 8”s. I use every size. A speaker only works in a cab. The pairing is the item. You can’t generalize about what works.

If you don't need to play along with a Rock Drummer and Guitarist and is good for you it's fine...

An 8x10" will do the job for me, but not less than that......

You are right, lots of them in a big Cab...

 

[el murdoque]

Unfortunately, Most Bass Players never had the opportunity to A/B test different amps in the same situation to have a valid opinion...

....and that's why I was asking about the comparison of the Hellborg cabinet and the barefaced. The last time I played a Warwick cab was more than a decade ago and it was not exactly a pleasant experience.
I do know the barefaced cabs, though - and would be able to piece together what that Hellborg cabinet can do with that as a reference point.
At that current price, one could order a couple of them off thomann and the size and weight would not even matter that much. Get one for home, one for the rehearsal space and one for the truck for the price of a single barefaced.

 

[Musicavenger]

....and that's why I was asking about the comparison of the Hellborg cabinet and the barefaced. The last time I played a Warwick cab was more than a decade ago and it was not exactly a pleasant experience.
I do know the barefaced cabs, though - and would be able to piece together what that Hellborg cabinet can do with that as a reference point.
At that current price, one could order a couple of them off thomann and the size and weight would not even matter that much. Get one for home, one for the rehearsal space and one for the truck for the price of a single barefaced.

Yes, I can't believe the prices of the BF but I'm talking about the Hellborg Cabs, not the other many Warwick Cabs that I also didn't like.

Take in mind that the Hi Cab doesn't have a tweeter but Extended range whizzer cone drivers as used on some Eden Cabs so you won't get that SWR Slap Sound but they have much more Top End than a Cab without a Tweeter (up to 8Khz) that is good for me as a Rock Player that doesn't like the tweeter sound that most bass players like.

That's is my personal preference but it shouldn't be others. But if you play Overdriven or distorted Bass there's no better choice unless you use a Powerful Guitar Cab..

The Drivers on the Hi Cab are Celestion Truvox TF1218TC that have very similar specs to the G12K-100 Guitar Speaker but with a vented coil and the double cone.

 

[el murdoque]

Dude, I'm getting the feeling you're pulling my leg.

In your initial post, you wrote about how your friend dragged in a barefaced two10 and you two compared it to the Hellborg Hi Cab and you both decided that the Hellborg won (so much indeed that your friend returned his cab).

I asked about details of that comparison, but after doing so three times, I feel like you are avoiding a direct answer.

 

[Musicavenger]

Dude, I'm getting the feeling you're pulling my leg.

In your initial post, you wrote about how your friend dragged in a barefaced two10 and you two compared it to the Hellborg Hi Cab and you both decided that the Hellborg won (so much indeed that your friend returned his cab).

I asked about details of that comparison, but after doing so three times, I feel like you are avoiding a direct answer.

What you want me to tell you? That the Barefaced was less sensitive to the same Power and was Dark with no mids with just lows and Highs, that's maybe what you wanted to know.....

My friend didn't get a Hellborg because is too heavy for his needs but got something else...

Or you want to know that one of the Top Bass Shops in the world doesn't sell them anymore because of poor customer service and have better and cheaper options to offer to their customers...

I opened this thread to discuss the Hellborg system but you mentioned the BF and here you got your answer...

I won't buy any of the Hellborg Gear at its original price but at this ridiculous discontinued price, there's no better option.