Was my teacher a fraud?

[basscase666]

He liked to mention that he was a graduate of Berklee. He also said that he had never learned to read treble clef.

I never thought much of it until years later when I took my first college music theory class. You couldn't pass this introductory class without reading both bass and treble clefs. It then occurred to me that how could anybody graduate Berklee and not be able to read the treble clef?

 

[Scottgun]

Maybe he was pulling your leg. No way you can get through a music program without reading all clefs.

 

[Malcolm35]

It is also my understanding that standard notation is what their material will use.

 

[Benjamin Earl]

I started reading music on a treble clef instrument. I can sight read on that instrument in the treble clef. I was taught F-clef, C-clef, and G-clef in school. To this day I still am transposing from treble clef when reading bass clef. If someone asked if I read bass clef, then I would say "barely". I have never used C-clef in my life.

I was also taught to speak Spanish in high school and college. I would absolutely need to translate from English to Spanish. I don't remember much Spanish now. If someone asked if I speak Spanish, then I would say "no".

My point is, most people will naturally speak their first language. The second language will not likely be instantaneous and need some thinking and converting from the first language.

I'm sure your teacher was taught all three clefs, but bass clef was his first language. If you don't use it, then you lose it.

 

[SteveC]

It sounds a little fishy to me. I’m not a Berklee grad and I can read all the clefs.

 

[Mushroo]

Two comments:

1. "Fraud" is a pretty harsh judgment. Maybe "humble and self deprecating" is a more charitable way of looking at the situation?
2. Just because someone graduates with a diploma, doesn't mean they've mastered all the material 100%. I have a music degree from a good school, but I got B's and C's. Some topics I was a lot better at than other topics (and I think, that's okay). Fortunately, though, I didn't stop learning at age 21 when I graduated! Getting my diploma was the start of my journey, not the destination.

 

[DirtDog]

Are you sure it was Berklee and not Berkeley?

 

[Lee Moses]

A bassist could conceivably graduate from Berklee without getting proficient in sight-reading treble clef on bass. He would certainly know the names of all the notes his first semester, if he didn't already know them going in.

 

[g-dude]

He liked to mention that he was a graduate of Berklee. He also said that he had never learned to read treble clef.

I never thought much of it until years later when I took my first college music theory class. You couldn't pass this introductory class without reading both bass and treble clefs. It then occurred to me that how could anybody graduate Berklee and not be able to read the treble clef?

“Never learned” seems to be a stretch.

“Out of practice” could be believable. I’m at the point where I read bass clef much easier than treble clef, and I’ve only bothered re-learning it this year. Make me read treble clef and my sight reading is probably at half speed.

 

[dalkowski]

One of my sons is currently a Berklee student:

He: "We gotta learn all the clefs."
Me: "Including sight reading?"
He: "Yeah, ear training and harmony texts use both t & b clef equally."

He went on, but you get the idea.

 

[bass12]

One of my sons is currently a Berklee student:

He: "We gotta learn all the clefs."
Me: "Including sight reading?"
He: "Yeah, ear training and harmony texts use both t & b clef equally."

He went on, but you get the idea.

Really? They’re expected to be able to sight read in alto and tenor clef as well as bass and treble? That seems unlikely to me.

 

[Killing Floor]

Maybe he was just trying to be funny.

Luckily I learned treble and bass clef by 2nd grade thanks to a very average neighbor piano teacher. My kid was sight reading by 2nd grade because it was a minimum requirement to pass 2nd grade chorus in the public school.
So if you tell me a music teacher who graduated from Berklee cannot read I would assume that was a joke.

I take out my calculator to multiply by 10. More for the reaction than for the need.

 

[dalkowski]

Really? They’re expected to be able to sight read in alto and tenor clef as well as bass and treble? That seems unlikely to me.

Um, no. Treble and bass. Operating under a certain set of assumptions here.

If you need your early music fix, New England Conservatory is a short walk away—south on Mass Ave, cross Huntington, turn right, go one block.

 

[fishdreams]

• There are more clefs than bass(f clef) and treble (g clef). Of the c clefs you may encounter the tenor clef as a bass player when you study certain common editions of Bach cello suites, for example.
• People graduate from Berklee in all kinds of majors, for example audio engineering or music production.
• To sightread music correctly and in tempo at first sight in any clef is something that simply requires regular practice, like any craft. Someone may well have been able to do it well at the time of graduation from their studies, only to lose that facility over time.

So I wouldn't call someone a fraud based on the available information

 

[Lee Moses]

Me: "Including sight reading?"
He: "Yeah, ear training and harmony texts use both t & b clef equally."

Just to clarify, ear training class does not involve sight reading on the bass, and harmony class doesn't involve sight reading at all.

 

[dalkowski]

Just to clarify, ear training class does not involve sight reading on the bass, and harmony class doesn't involve sight reading at all.

I will be calling the bursar's office tomorrow and demanding a partial tuition refund.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I can probably just google it, but for the sake of discussion, what instruments use alto and tenor clefs? I can only think of viola.

 

[brianrost]

Trombone often uses tenor clef.

 

[bbh]

Commander McBragg...

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Trombone often uses tenor clef.

I always hated when the notes would be on 4 or so ledger lines. Just put it in readable territory and add an 8va / 8vb.