powermans said:
Paul, Bugger the other TBDBérs keep going, I'm absolutely taken with your knowledge of RED! I did NOT know about the fifth tuning and the ANY of the other
superb info you have provided. Yes, I am now starting to look further into this master of the Bass and as soon as I type this , I'm off to Google to do a search on Red(as suggested). Tell me Paul, do you know why Red went after the fifth tuning. I must admit that I do NOT have a great knowledge in fifth tuning...can you explain this technique a little further....Do you have to use different string set-ups (EADG) in order to tune this way and, What do you get for your trouble? Look forward to some more stories.
PS :- I'll have to have a closer listen to my CD "TRIO"Red with Jimmy Rowles , Donald Bailey. recorded 1989...a little before his death .
More Please!!!!
My pleasure: The fifth tuning deal comes from a couple different places. With Red it was, at first,
the need to get down to those lower notes. In the studios in the 50s and 60s when Red was so active in the Hollywood (just about when Red got fed up with the politics in this country, the before-mentioned assasinations and civil rights) The end of this period being the time when Red moved to Sweden and Ray Brown quit the road stuff with Oscar Peterson and moved to L.A. Another interesting side-bar for bassists was that this was the time when the great bass luthier Paul Toenniges was so active in L.A. Like anything Red was interested in, he championed Paul's talents in all kinds of work...turning four stringers into fivers. Reds first and most obvious move was to go to a five stringer to get down to that low B. In those big movie orchestras they needed at least one guy in the section to go down....(so to speak) Red took it on himself to be that guy. The fiver worked fine but Red had bigger ideas. He wanted to do some other stuff involving double and triple stops, and his melodic-bent ears craved another way to produce some of that horn-like quality in his playing. Also fifth tuning tension on the bass produced a different sound. Red needed a hell of alot of sustain to pull off some some of those left hand triplet figures he played. One of the qualities that fifth tuning helps in the orchestra is intonation. All the strings are tuned in fifths except the double bass. Other great bassists are doing the same thing. The great Canadian bassist Joel Quarrington is doing some wonderful stuff with 5ths.
When Red started the new tuning, obviously, there were no strings available, so he had to use a solo G string tuned up to A, of course the D remained the same, the G, I guess was just an A tuned down a step and the low C was either a regular E tuned down to C or a B tuned up to C? I dunno.
Again, Red comes up with the answer by talking Thomastik strings into making a complete set of fifth tuning strings.....still available i'm sure.
As I mention in another post, listening to Red Mitchell play the bass is totally unlike anything in bassdom. Chis Fitz just mentioned the other day on the Sampler thread how he was working on that Red Mitcell time "Bounce" In L.A. before 5th tuning and even before steel strings when Red was playing with GUT strings, he got this wonderful "bounce" to his time playing and extended it into his fifth playing, although after the switch he didn't play every quarter note time wise because his sound was getting SO Long, it didn't lend itself to quarter note time playing. So, SCREW it, Red started comping more like a guitar player with double and triple stops and more of that "bounce" kind of in a Scott LaFaro interplay vibe.
This is turning into an EPIC.....As far as Reds effect on me and my playing goes.....I had some serious luck in that Red was the first jazz bassist I ever heard, so I figured "I'll just copy this guy...he sounds good. He's probably good enough for me to cop. Later after not being able to afford to buy other records to expose myself (let me put that a different way) to other bassists I soon found out that Red was not run of the mill. We've always talked about writing down a bass solo and then having a horn play it back? Well, any bass solo Red Mitchell ever played sounded just as rich and dynamic on ANY instrument including the piano.
I love Red Mitchell!
I heard Red play in person two different times when he was in L.A. The first time....Something new....Steel strings. He was the first bassist I ever heard using steel strings. The next time...Something new...An Amp. He was the first bassist I ever heard using an Amp! Oh yeah, one more time at Shelley's ManneHole....fifth tuning.
I have quite a few gigs this summer though, and I don't think I will be able to jump back and forth with a lot of ease, so we'll see what happens!
