Double Bass Wasn't RED a GREAT Player?

[Ed Fuqua]

Who can tell me the full story about the estrogen catastrophe and Red. I've only heard a few nibbles?

Whachoo bin drinkin, beet? I got no idea what yer talking about.

Oh and ha ha. Canadian currency, I just got it.

 

[nypiano]

Well--

I had heard that a reason or at least a contributing factor in his passing was that he was taking (too much?) estrogen. I don't know if it was an experimental therapy on his part. I'm almost certain my father told me that.

Re: misread. Well. the take it offline comment seemed like a not here fellas comment. Didn't know it meant love to participate/see away from this board. --

In reference to the interview. I asked him stuff about his relationship with my dad and his experiences. There's really nothing about bass. I also asked him about Undercurrents which is so great that for me it borders on the demonic in terms of artistic achievement. I would probably have to ask/reiterate my intentions to him about broadcasting. We were also going through issues over the Jazz Loft book published by Jim Eigo

 

[Damon Rondeau]

...seemed like a not here fellas comment.

...when it was meant more along the lines of "stop, we can't handle the envy!" It looked like the thread was going to contain a large dollop of reference to records, vids, documents, etc. that are held privately and ain't available to the public.

Sometimes I really hate the awkwardness of this e-mail form of communication. Often feels as crude as smoke signals.

Maybe I should use more of them smileys.

 

[Paul Warburton]

I'm just sitting here wondering if I should call Diane Mitchell (Reds widow) and ask her about this? I'm not sure if it would be appropriate for me to ask, except she just loves talking about Red, and has posted on her site that she would appreciate any unknown ( to her ) info on Red because she is working on his biography. Anything, especially other bass players interests in Red just thrills her.
What do you guys think?
By the way, Jon, I agree with you about undercurrents!
This stuff about Jim really fits in on this thread because I read an article about Jim being VERY influenced by Red. He mentions learning alot by watching Reds left hand. Re: The way Red would play those graceful triplets and down and up slurs. Also, as Ed and I discussed, some of those Contemporary label sessions from the late 50's ...All Night Session. Three volumes with Jim, Red, Hamp Hawes and some mystery drummer named Bruz Freeman...oh yeah one in paticular on Pacific Jazz...Jim, Red on PIANO and Red Kelly on bass. They called this band ' The Modest Jazz Trio '
Jon, have you heard that? A fun band.

Oops, John and Jon....I just noticed when I went further back into this thread that we already talked about the All Night Sessions. SORRY!

 

[Alexi David]

I'm just sitting here wondering if I should call Diane Mitchell (Reds widow) and ask her about this? I'm not sure if it would be appropriate for me to ask, except she just loves talking about Red, and has posted on her site that she would appreciate any unknown ( to her ) info on Red because she is working on his biography. Anything, especially other bass players interests in Red just thrills her. What do you guys think?

Well, if she loves talking about him and thrills at interest in him, why would it be innapropriate?

 

[Paul Warburton]

I don't think the content would have relevance here. And apparently the discussion of same has no currency in CDN either..
So how bout this one. Who can tell me the full story about the estrogen catastrophe and Red. I've only heard a few nibbles?

Well, I sent an email to Diane Mitchell asking about the estrogen thing...we'll see.

 

[nypiano]

I'm just sitting here wondering if I should call Diane Mitchell (Reds widow) and ask her about this? I'm not sure if it would be appropriate for me to ask, except she just loves talking about Red, and has posted on her site that she would appreciate any unknown ( to her ) info on Red because she is working on his biography. Anything, especially other bass players interests in Red just thrills her.
What do you guys think?
By the way, Jon, I agree with you about undercurrents!
This stuff about Jim really fits in on this thread because I read an article about Jim being VERY influenced by Red. He mentions learning alot by watching Reds left hand. Re: The way Red would play those graceful triplets and down and up slurs. Also, as Ed and I discussed, some of those Contemporary label sessions from the late 50's ...All Night Session. Three volumes with Jim, Red, Hamp Hawes and some mystery drummer named Bruz Freeman...oh yeah one in paticular on Pacific Jazz...Jim, Red on PIANO and Red Kelly on bass. They called this band ' The Modest Jazz Trio '
Jon, have you heard that? A fun band.

Oops, John and Jon....I just noticed when I went further back into this thread that we already talked about the All Night Sessions. SORRY!

My inclination would be not to ask her. Because it might be something she probably would question the purpose of--in this case--gossip? Plus a small part of me thinks I may have a faulty memory of this. I could ask my brother (if/when he reconnects his phone)--he definitely would know.

Re: Jim's influences. Yeah all of those guys influenced each other a lot. In a newsletter published by Bill Crow, Jim mentioned his melodic influences-as being Bob Brookmeyer. Who in turn said he got his stuff from Jimmy Raney. Dad's influences included Stan Getz--whom he says he got that famous double noted phrasing from. I also hear the multimeter phrasing influence. Stan played repeated licks in 5/4 and I heard that with some regularity by about the 70s from my Dad (tape of him showing the same to my brother in lesson) You can hear it on early Stan records where he's doing that. So the circle completes. Also Dad referred to Michael Moore as a young Red Mitchell when he was playing with him. Obviously this was a while ago
I have heard of the sessions where Red is playing piano but don't recall hearing them.

Re: Interview. I'll dig it up and then communicate with Jim or Janey about posting it on the board and see what he says

 

[powermans]

Just to continue on from my last entry and my search for Red on Video/Film, I have just today purchased a great book titled "Jazz on Film"by Scott Yanow.(print 2004) And for those who are interested in Red's Film/Video footage available??? if you can get em! Here they are:-

1.Jazz Scene USA "The Harold Land-Red Mitchell Quintet"(Shanachie)
2.Playboy Jazz Festival Vol1.(1991,91 Minutes Musicvision)
Red Norvo with Tal Farlow Red Mitchell,Nancy Wilson,Art Farmer,Benny Golson.
3.Film "I Want To Live"(1958,120 Minutes)
Pete Jolly, Red Mitchell, Shelly Manne.
4.Film "The Subterraneans"(1960.86 Minutes)
Carmen McRae, Art Farmer,Art Pepper,Red Mitchell, Dave Bailey.
5.Film "Too Late Blues"(1961 103 Minutes)
Bobby Darin/ Stella Stevens. featured Benny Carter,Milt Bernhart,Jimmy Rowles,Red Mitchell,Shelly Manne.
6.Television 1952 ( 15 Minutes)"Jimmy Dorsey's Variëties"
Red Norvo Trio, Tal Farlow , Red Mitchell playing"Temptation".
7.TV .1954 (16 Minutes)"Keep It Cool" Red Norvo Trio as above.
8.TV 1963 (5 Minutes) In 1963 Columbia Records filmed some of its top-selling Jazz Artists talking briefly about their new records and playing excerpts from some of the selections.Of strongest interest are the segments by Andre Previn with his trio (bassist Red Mitchell and Drummer Frank Capp).

I'm sure this would only be a few of Red's film adventures in fact, I have began to look very closely at the Frank Sinatra concerts that I have on Video and DVD. I sure Red's head will pop up somewhere!

 

[Paul Warburton]

Just to continue on from my last entry and my search for Red on Video/Film, I have just today purchased a great book titled "Jazz on Film"by Scott Yanow.(print 2004) And for those who are interested in Red's Film/Video footage available??? if you can get em! Here they are:-

1.Jazz Scene USA "The Harold Land-Red Mitchell Quintet"(Shanachie)
2.Playboy Jazz Festival Vol1.(1991,91 Minutes Musicvision)
Red Norvo with Tal Farlow Red Mitchell,Nancy Wilson,Art Farmer,Benny Golson.
3.Film "I Want To Live"(1958,120 Minutes)
Pete Jolly, Red Mitchell, Shelly Manne.
4.Film "The Subterraneans"(1960.86 Minutes)
Carmen McRae, Art Farmer,Art Pepper,Red Mitchell, Dave Bailey.
5.Film "Too Late Blues"(1961 103 Minutes)
Bobby Darin/ Stella Stevens. featured Benny Carter,Milt Bernhart,Jimmy Rowles,Red Mitchell,Shelly Manne.
6.Television 1952 ( 15 Minutes)"Jimmy Dorsey's Variëties"
Red Norvo Trio, Tal Farlow , Red Mitchell playing"Temptation".
7.TV .1954 (16 Minutes)"Keep It Cool" Red Norvo Trio as above.
8.TV 1963 (5 Minutes) In 1963 Columbia Records filmed some of its top-selling Jazz Artists talking briefly about their new records and playing excerpts from some of the selections.Of strongest interest are the segments by Andre Previn with his trio (bassist Red Mitchell and Drummer Frank Capp).
I'm sure this would only be a few of Red's film adventures in fact, I have began to look very closely at the Frank Sinatra concerts that I have on Video and DVD. I sure Red's head will pop up somewhere!

I'd pay top dollar for that ' Red Mitchell/Harold Land Quintet.
This is the band where Red plays ALOT of ARCO DB/Tenor Sax with Harold Land. This band is a MOTHER!!
Power, how do we get this stuff??
I don't know if i'd wanna hear anybody play 'Temptation' Even Red,Red Norvo and Tal Farlow.
Most of Sinatras concert had his 'Road Band' on them. That, more than likely, will be Gene Cherico on bass.
Red's easy to spot though with his bright red hair.

 

[Alexi David]

I'd pay top dollar for that ' Red Mitchell/Harold Land Quintet.
This is the band where Red plays ALOT of ARCO DB/Tenor Sax with Harold Land. This band is a MOTHER!!
Power, how do we get this stuff??
I don't know if i'd wanna hear anybody play 'Temptation' Even Red,Red Norvo and Tal Farlow.
Most of Sinatras concert had his 'Road Band' on them. That, more than likely, will be Gene Cherico on bass.
Red's easy to spot though with his bright red hair.

Paul, I collect rare jazz videos - If I happen upon Red, I'll PM you

 

[powermans]

In regard to your enquiry on the The Harold Land/Red Quintet.
I don't like your chances! This is the full story as written :-
(Quote) :- While Shanachie did a fine job of releasing eight of the JAZZ SCENE USA programs, many more remain out of print.Among the ones that will hopefully surface one day are half-hour shows featuring Curtis Amy-Paul Bryant Quintet, Teddy Buckner,The firehouse Five Plus Two, Pete Fountain, Paul Horn Quintet, The Jazz Crusaders, The Barney Kessel Trio, The Harold Land/Red Michell Quintet The Les Mc Cann Trio, Big Millar with the Russ Freeman Trio, The Modern Jazz Quartet,Mark Murphy, Ben Pollack'sPick -A-Rib Boys(a Dixieland sextet with Bob Wilber and Dick Cary),Lou Rawls,Vi Redd,The Bud Shank Quartet,The Cal Tjader Quintet, Nancy Wilson and Oscar Brown Jr himself. (Unquote)
Unfortunately, the only Jazz Scene DVD I have in my collection is the Shelly Manne / Shorty Rogers and His Giants.
However, now I know that the above information ALSO exists (maybe somewhere in some format), I can live in hope!

 

[Paul Warburton]

I found a copy of that Hear Ye! Hear Ye! by The Red Mitchell-Harold Land Quintet on CD while digging around on EBay.
As i've mentioned, what makes this an interesting side for Jazz bassists is: There's a great picture of that big Tyrolean that Red had Paul Toenniges make into a fiver. (this was Reds last stop on his way to fifth tuning) Also, Paul had some Joseph Bohmann machines laying around his shop. (Bohmann was the maker of my fiver and it has a complete set of Bohmann five string tuner plates. Apparentely Paul only had a four string set, because there's an odd French style machine for the extra string on Reds bass.)
Another interesting thing about this side is that it's one of only two or three sides where Red plays alot of ARCO! In fact several of the arrangements are written using the bass as a second and sometimes Third front-line voice. Especially the bass/tenor combinations are VERY effective.

Anyway, I have it....why don't one of you guys get this one?
Hear Ye! Hear Ye !!!! The Red Mitchell Harold Land Quintet
2/12/05 ending bidding.
Music/CDs 4072361645

 

[Paul Warburton]

Got a note from Diane Mitchell...
She doesn't know anything about estrogen and Red.
She said he was on a small regimine of testosterone. It was prescribed for him after a vasectomy in 1966. Diane said that the testosterone made him feel more alert and creative.....

 

[jgbass]

What a great, informative thread. I recently discovered Red and am totally taken by his playing. Have a couple of his solo albums too. Had no idea he played so extensively and that there were some film footages out.

 

[powermans]

Just by way of interest for those D/Bers out there who DON'T have a copy of the "The Jazz Bass Book" by John Goldsby (Chop....) in their libary....Then I strongly suggest that you invest in this GREAT publication and, then turn to Page 100 (Chapter 35) and read more on yours and my hero Red Mitchell after that, turn a page and have a go at the transcribed solo from Hampton Hawes 1955 recording of
" What Is This Thing Called Love".
Long Live Red!!!!

 

[Paul Warburton]

Just by way of interest for those D/Bers out there who DON'T have a copy of the "The Jazz Bass Book" by John Goldsby (Chop....) in their libary....Then I strongly suggest that you invest in this GREAT publication and, then turn to Page 100 (Chapter 35) and read more on yours and my hero Red Mitchell after that, turn a page and have a go at the transcribed solo from Hampton Hawes 1955 recording of
" What Is This Thing Called Love".
Long Live Red!!!!

Not to brag, but when I was about 16, I was able to play ALL of Reds solos off of those Hamp Hawes Trio albums. This was when Red was tuning in fourths and using gut strings. Those solos are all just haunting!!

 

[Paul Warburton]

What a great, informative thread. I recently discovered Red and am totally taken by his playing. Have a couple of his solo albums too. Had no idea he played so extensively and that there were some film footages out.

Wow...This thread has everything!! A great NY Jazz pianist, many good to great Jazz Bassists and now a LADY bassist!
Welcome jg!

 

[nypiano]

Got a note from Diane Mitchell...
She doesn't know anything about estrogen and Red.
She said he was on a small regimine of testosterone. It was prescribed for him after a vasectomy in 1966. Diane said that the testosterone made him feel more alert and creative.....

So I guess I got the wrong hormone. And how do you make a hormone?....Ed quickly before others beat you to it ..

Again this sort of registers in my memory of either my father or my brother saying he continued the therapy past the point of safety and that he was sort of concerned. Again could be a fish story--but the fact that it feels like I heard it probably points to something. Plus the fact that if you get a positive result from a drug the tendency would be to continue and perhaps increase the intake.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Ask her if she'll take a check?

 

[jgbass]

Welcome jg!

Thanks, Paul, but I have been around for awhile. Am a doubler, so sometimes I hang out on the BG forums and sometimes I get too busy to even check in.

But, since things have become more DB recently, I look forward to checking in here. Have learned lots here. So, time for some Red Mitchell CD's, the newest being some of ones he played with Hampton Hawes. Have never dug any bassist as much as Red. Four!!