Double Bass Watching conductor AND the music

[Andy Mopley]

Hi all
I understand (and we've discussed in the past) this relationship. What sometimes trips me is watching back to the music - I find that particuarly with the poorer transcribed music, or older (you know the ones with the eight note rest facing right..), or when there are quite "narrow" bars - it can be easy to lose my bearings. Yes, there are audio and visual cues I use, which have helped, but I was wondering how you deal with it, (if an issue at all), particualrly with pieces you not too familiar with, or somewhat repetitive in nature over many bars (Guess one more reason why players don't smile!! ;-) )
Regards to all, and thanks again for your (always valuable) contributions.

 

[Leif Dering]

Honestly, if it's a somewhat standard piece I'll try to find a better edition of it somewhere. There's a regional symphony who has an office less than a half hour drive from where I live and my former teacher is their librarian, so she can often hook me up with a big ol' Urtext edition that's super easy to read (they print their music on massive pieces of paper). If I can't get it through her, I'll usually just try to find a better bass part that I can buy. I don't mind paying a few bucks so I can have an easier time reading.

If I can't find a part, I just gotta make do. I usually end up having a lot of the harder bits basically memorized by the second or third rehearsal, and those are typically the hardest to read. Sucks, but not the end of the world.

As for repetitive bars, I'll number them out so I can just count in my head how many bars I've played the same thing.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

I keep the stand high so I can see the conductor.

If you have 40 bars of rest while the conductor is slowing down and speeding up, you can’t just count, you have to look.

Pro’s have no problem numbering bars, marking instrument cue’s, looking at the score to see how the bass part fits in, marking exposed bass entrances, whatever it takes to get it right.

Following the conductor is a skill. I am surprised there is not more formal instruction on how to follow conductors.
Conductors vary a lot in how they operate. Some talk too much. Some are hard to follow. Some should come with a users guide.

 

[David Potts]

If you wear glasses with a fairly simple prescription you might check out cheap half spectacles with different focal lengths at your drug store. Here they are about $30 per pair. I have one pair for reading books, close up stuff, etc, and another that focusses on the centre of the music, about 3 to 4 feet away. I keep a spare pair in my bass cover for when I forget. I have multifocals but hate using them for music because I get a stiff neck trying to adjust angles to refocus quickly. I don't have to wear glasses to drive, thank goodness.

The glasses perch far enough down my nose so that I can see the conductor and the beat slightly out of focus over the top of them then drop my eyes in focus to the music.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I give my beginning students a little lesson in orchestra etiquette since so often they are expected to play in their school groups right away. One of the things that seems to get them more focused on the conductor as well as the music is " if the conductor stops waving their arms you stop playing". It's the "waving their arms" part that they seem to relate to. Once that's established we can go into the meaning of the arm waving.

 

[Brilee]

I have a condition called accommodative infacility which means my eyes can't switch from near to far quickly. Refocusing quickly over and over makes me frustrated and anxious, and literally tired in the eyes. It causes some interesting challenges, but what I do in orchestra:

• Put the stand so that the top of the sheet music is just under my view of the conductor. (I can see him from about the belly up)
  
• I let the conductor stay out of focus, and keep my eyes focused on the score whenever I'm playing. He is always right on top of my part so his movement is always in my peripheral vision.
• When I have long rests, I take a mental note of how many measures, and then ONLY watch the conductor, with minimal switching back and forth. Watching and listening to how he cues everyone else while I'm not playing helps me be more confident about my next entrance.
• When I have a conductor who screams "look at me" I can do it without totally focusing on them, which makes coming back to the bass part easier. People aren't accustomed to purposely not focusing, but it can be done. It saves me energy and frustration to let either the near or far be out of focus as much as possible when it's not the primary point of attention.

 

[Ed S]

I'm a neophyte, but I am having great difficulty viewing the conductor as much other than a distraction. Instead, I take my cues from my section mates. Yeah - I suck at this.

 

[Brilee]

I'm a neophyte, but I am having great difficulty viewing the conductor as much other than a distraction. Instead, I take my cues from my section mates. Yeah - I suck at this.

Omigosh, I get it! My teacher, Curtis Burris, had a hilarious interview with Jason Heath where he talks about dealing with conductors and their dubious signals, even in major orchestras.

 

[Ed S]

I'm a bluegrass guy, and just about the only thing I pride myself in is my ability to keep a steady beat. The other day he actually said he was going to count us in - which he proceeded to do. And the strings started at a pace far faster than he had counted, and the conductor waved his arms much slower.

There is so much straining my feeble brain, that I figure I'll try to make sense of the conductor later. That is - until such time as he yells at the basses! But so far he seems to reserve his yelling for the brass!

 

[Bruce Calin]

One of the best qualities we can have as bassists is adaptability. This applies in orchestra playing as much as any other kind of music. Different conductors can have wildly different conducting styles and degrees of competence and the more we can adapt and adjust the more effective we will be. Experience has a lot to do with it but if we can anticipate and deal with potential issues the better off we will be. Sometimes the conductor's body language and movements will give you more information than their actual conducting. Your principal can also help a lot, but you have to be paying attention. As always, the importance of listening goes without saying.

 

[Mark_T]

One thing I've been struggling with lately is watching a conductor from the side. When I'm facing the conductor straight on, the difference between 2 & 3 in a bar of 4/4 is easy to see at a glance, but unless the conductor is really exaggerating it can be hard to see from way over to the conductor's right. I don't recall having had this problem before, but these last few years ... maybe my eyes are finally getting old.

 

[Andy Mopley]

I must admit (in my very limited experience) more often than not, strictly at the amateur level, there is a sense that the conductor is "always" right and the implications of their gestures are that "musicians" understand what they are doing - and don't you dare question it!! Again, speaking from a personal experience though.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I must admit (in my very limited experience) more often than not, strictly at the amateur level, there is a sense that the conductor is "always" right and the implications of their gestures are that "musicians" understand what they are doing - and don't you dare question it!! Again, speaking from a personal experience though.

This is one of those situations when your principal needs to speak up. It doesn't need to be confrontational, but if clarity is lacking it is necessary.

 

[LouisF]

Don't look... it only encourages them (conductors)!

 

[Carl Hillman]

You know the difference between a bull and an orchestra, right?

With a bull, the horns are in the front and the ass is in the back.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

 

[Adam Booker]

Some great advice here, but I will add:
1. Memorize entrances
2. Memorize cadential points
3. Memorize difficult passages to the best of your ability

The first two are easier than you think. Usually just the first couple notes to get you going, or it’s some form of landing on one. Helps with eye contact and following the stick. Number 3 gets easier with time, and is also beneficial in that those passages end up being on audition lists anyway, so might as well!

 

[turf3]

I remember the conductor who conducted 3/4 by just making a big circle with his baton. Lots of fun!

 

[CaseyVancouver]

I remember the conductor who conducted 3/4 by just making a big circle with his baton. Lots of fun!

I have one conductor, a world class musician, at first rehearsal told us ‘we need to internalize the count. It is an insult to use him as a metronome.’ I get what he means. Sometime he will sit down and only observe while we play a passage, no conducting. Then he’ll comment. Each rehearsal is a lesson in how to play one’s instrument.

There is no doubting this guy’s experience and talent, he’s the principal cellist in our local symphony. Plus he is likeable.