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Wathen Cryotone Tubes?

600 Ohms

600 Ohms

Supporting Member
Jan 4, 2012
2,071
3,293
#1
Anyone try these? Their website has very little useful information but they appear to be an audiophile company that has started catering to musical instrument amplifiers. My eyes want to roll at the very mention of “audiophile”, but as far as newly made tubes, I’m always open. They seem to have some kind of cryo process that I’m naturally dubious about but was looking for people with experience.

Swart seem to like them a lot.

Wathen Deep Cryogenics
 
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#4
ihixulu said:
They freeze the tubes to make them what exactly?

Somehow, I can see someone selling frozen speaker cables in the near future.
Click to expand...

They're way ahead of you...
Yel_wink.gif


One vendor (of many, I assume): [This invalid link has been removed]
 
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#6
I found this to be a good article about cryogenic treatment of vacuum tubes from Phil Taylor at Effectrode.

Conclusion from the article: The bottom line is that cryogenic treatment is no remedy for inferior materials or defects in tube construction and it won’t transform a rebranded modern manufacture tube into a genuine N.O.S. Mullard a or Sylvania tube—it just doesn’t work that way.
 
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#8
600 Ohms said:
Anyone try these? Their website has very little useful information but they appear to be an audiophile company that has started catering to musical instrument amplifiers. My eyes want to roll at the very mention of “audiophile”, but as far as newly made tubes, I’m always open. They seem to have some kind of cryo process that I’m naturally dubious about but was looking for people with experience.

Swart seem to like them a lot.

Wathen Deep Cryogenics
Click to expand...

Telefunken tubes are Manufactured by JJ and then cryo treated in the US.

TELEFUNKEN Introduces New Black Diamond Tubes at Summer NAMM - TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik

I am agnostic on the benefit of cryo treating a tube. I have bought quite a few JJ ECC803S, but I don't plan to buy any Telefunkens. Telefunken ECC83-TK tube looks like the JJ ECC83S, which I don't particularly care for in bass amps.
 
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#10
600 Ohms said:
Anyone try these? Their website has very little useful information but they appear to be an audiophile company that has started catering to musical instrument amplifiers. My eyes want to roll at the very mention of “audiophile”, but as far as newly made tubes, I’m always open. They seem to have some kind of cryo process that I’m naturally dubious about but was looking for people with experience.

Swart seem to like them a lot.

Wathen Deep Cryogenics
Click to expand...
I've been rolling pre-amp tubes for a while now. I've tried NOS GE 5751s and12 AX7s, Northern Electric 12AX7s, etc and in a blind test the Sovtek Large Plates win every time in V1 of my Demeter pre. Kind of a bummer, because I've dropped stupid money on audiophile tubes only to be disappointed. I've heard that for what bass preamps do, high end tubes don't really have as much of an impact as they would in a set top receiver or high end stereo set up.

We are talking preamp tubes, right?
 
#12
FugaziBomb said:
I've been rolling pre-amp tubes for a while now. I've tried NOS GE 5751s and12 AX7s, Northern Electric 12AX7s, etc and in a blind test the Sovtek Large Plates win every time in V1 of my Demeter pre. Kind of a bummer, because I've dropped stupid money on audiophile tubes only to be disappointed. I've heard that for what bass preamps do, high end tubes don't really have as much of an impact as they would in a set top receiver or high end stereo set up.

We are talking preamp tubes, right?
Click to expand...

Bummer? IMHO you should be thrilled that you don't need to drop any more cash on expensive tubes.

A lot of people like the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. To my ears the current production Mullard ECC83 is very similar in the mids and highs, but is a bit more clear and focused in the low end. I have rolled the 12AX7LPS in several bass and guitar amps, but so far it's gone back in the box.

In bass amps I often like the Mullard in V1 followed by a long-plate JJ ECC803S. This combination has worked well for me in several bass amps, but not every tube position in every amp benefits from tube rolling. I rolled a bunch of current production tubes through my Trace Elliot V-Type and wound up reinstalling the OEM tubes in V1, V3, and V4. I left a Gold Lion ECC83/B759 in V2 as it opened up the mids a little, but the difference was so minimal that I struggled with the decision since the B759 is sort of a pricey tube.
 
#13
Cryogenic treatment of metal isn’t snake oil, it has scientifically proven effects. It’s used in the aerospace field quite a bit.

Whether or not it will lengthen the life of the tubes enough to be worth doing it, or affect tone significantly I’m not sure.

I don’t know if relieving stresses of the metal interior of the tube would be of benefit.
 
#15
I like Electro-Harmonics 6CA7's as an alternative to most EL34's, 6L6GC's and 6550's: clean headroom without harshness, when powered and biased properly. My point? Like the conclusion above, I believe there is a lot more difference from manufacturer to manufacturer than there is with one manufacturer's regular tubes compared to the same manufacturer's cryo treated tubes.

BTW: with the temperature of vacuum tubes when an amplifier is turned on approaching that of a small space heater, and with the heat generated by the six 6550's in an Ampeg SVT being hot enough to roast meat, aren't any supposed benefits of cryo treatment gone the first time you install them and flip the power switch?
 
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#16
To me high end pre-amp tubes are original Telefunken, Amperex, or Mullard.
Something about those 60's European tubes that I like.

Why would making the metal parts in a tube more robust change the tone.
For that matter does it really make them last longer?

I've had some motorcycle transmission gears cryo treated as it sometimes is the only way to make them live when you are using a part designed for 75 HP and are now feeding it nearly twice that.
 
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#17
Audiophile quality tubes in a bass amp? Isn’t that something like putting Nappa Leather seats in your weekend rock-crawler Jeep? Will they stand up to the signal coming out of my Big Muff? I think audiophile quality gear makes sense for multi-instrument recordings with 20Hz - 20KHz frequency range, but use in bass amps for live music doesn’t seem like it would be all that noticeable.

On the other hand, any tube type gear used in a recording environment might benefit, if these tubes add as much performance quality as their price indicates they will...
 
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