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wattage/ohms question

M

macca65

Mar 24, 2012
12
1
#1
Newbie here - guess this type of question is asked almost daily here so at the risk of being flamed:

I've got a trace elliot 1210H 4x10 combo and want to get a 15" extension speaker to beef up my bottom end.

The amp is rated at 300w rms and is increased to 500w with extn speaker.

It says on the extn speaker jack: minimum 4 ohms. So what wattage extn speaker do I need at 4 and 8 ohms?

Haven't a clue about this **** - i'm just a bassplayer aye :help:
 
#2
So, coupla things:

If you suspect a question has been asked frequently, look at the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).

The whole idea of adding a 15 to a 410 is a leftover from a more primitive era of bass playing; it is also something we've talked about A LOT lately. So just read through a couple pages of this forum and you will find those threads.
 
#3
bongomania said:
If you suspect a question has been asked frequently, look at the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions). something we've talked about A LOT lately. So just read through a couple pages of this forum and you will find those threads.
Click to expand...

Big +1

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but the amount that we've talked about this stuff lately probably has something to do with the number of replies you've received... Also, every question you asked is already there for the reading in the stickies at the top of the page.
 
#4
Well i did read the stickies and I've seen the mixing driver sizes thread. I still didn't understand the ohms watts thing so I asked a very specific question and hoped for a specific answer.

As for the 4x10 + 1x15 thing - well after reading some of the driver thread it seems that it's a preference thing - I've tried that configuration before and thought it sounded great to my ears - if you'd advise against it then feel free to tell me what you think. That thread is like 3000+ posts and I haven't had the time to read the whole thing - just enough to know its moot.

So either answer my question or jog the f**k on - no need to be trolls about it. Cheers.

:hiding:
 
#6
Wow. Well then, in that case. Go find the manual for your amp. I'm sure you can google it. Find out how many ohms the combo cab is. Find out if the amp can do 8, 4, or 2 ohms. match the ohms of the combo with the ohms of the extension cab. 8+8=4, 4+4=2. Don't go less than the book says you can go.

Now I'm gonna jog on, cause apparently I was trolling.
 
#7
I have googled for specs - can only find the newer 2x10 version.

I said in the original post that it's min 4 ohms and I thought it was an entirely reasonable question for someone who isn't at all technical. It seems I was wrong - so so wrong.

So it's one of those boards with those kind of people :eyebrow:
 
#8
Whoa! Come out of the gate swinging! Nice!

OK, I'll answer. You can use two 8 ohm cabs or one 4 ohm cab.

So if a thread that discusses the very subject you asked about is moot, what makes you think discussing it here is any less moot? Not like the speaker business has been revolutionized in the last 24 hours.
 
#9
I didn't ask about my preferred config - I just got told that it was a prehistoric set up. (see no 2)

So what wattage do they need to be - from what I've read an 8 ohm 250w should be ok but I'm not sure.

I just get annoyed when people are so arrogant and don't want to answer a perfectly reasonable question from a technophobe. I don't understand and I just wanted a direct answer - is that so wrong?
 
#11
Ya, a cab that's 8 ohm and 250w power handling should be fine although you couldn't turn up as loud as you could with a cab that handles more than that. You can run a single 8 ohm cab, too. You just can't go lower than 4 ohms total, so you can't use two 4 ohm cabs or an 8 ohm cab and a 4 ohm cab. But power handling ratings on cabs are by and large irrelevant so just go for what you think is a good cab, and use your best judgment, and turn down if the cab sounds like it's going to explode ;)
 
#13
thanks FC and Jimmy - Yes I think the combo is at 8 ohms - the tweeter is rated 8 ohms but the 4 10s are celestion and don't say - dunno how they are wired - wouldn't know what to look for.

my local music store said I needed a 500w but they would say that aye.

@jim - Risk? you're just people on the internetz - some are helpful and some are arrogant - I expected the kind of 'tone' I got from the first few replies - but dun worry - i'm not mad with you.
 
#14
JimmyM said:
Whoa! Come out of the gate swinging! Nice!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if Jimmy is being sarcastic; but if not...
+1

So, while technically speaking a 1X15 is generally a mismatch when paired with a 4X10...
That one driver will be struggling to deal with the same power as the four drivers in the other cab, and truthfully it's difficult to appreciably "beef up my bottom end" by simply adding a 1X15 cab to a 4X10 when both are running full range; even with an active crossover biamp circuit it's difficult to attain a tonal balance, the 1X15 generally just won't move enough air to keep up with the 4X10 unless it's a specialty built sub and/or it's crossed over so low that it is just supplementing the frequencies that are rolling off in the 4X10 cab which is not, IMO, nearly as practical in most applications as using another 4X10 cab full range.

All that said a 1X15 under a 4X10 does indeed add a tonal dimension to a bass rig, and is a very popular combination; regardless of the talkbass mantra against such a pairing.
According to the internet experts here the 410+115 combo is simply a marketing ploy by manufacturers to sell more cabinets.
In reality (and also in my opinion) adding a 115 to a 410 in an MI application will in fact increase the overall tonal "girth" of a bass rig, particularly near-field.

Sorry to ramble, but to answer your question, as several other posters have graciously answered, I think your amp is looking for a 4 ohm minimum total load and that probably means you need an 8 ohm 1X15 cab, and you should be looking for a cab that will handle about the same wattage as your 4X10 is rated for.

Welcome to Talkbass! ;)
 
#15
Thanks Ed. I'm starting to understand and yes, I think the extension must be 8 ohms as I'm pretty sure the 4x10 bit is 8.

might have to spend a few days reading the thread on mixing speaker sizes properly - would be a lot cheaper and easier to get another 4x10 but I want more bottom end - I use drop d tuning a lot but find that bottom d a little undefined.
 
#16
and thanks for the welcome - its already more friendly than when I asked a pre ernie ball stingray question on the EB forum - You'd have thought I'd just asked whether I could do their granny up the glitter.
 
#17
Your 4x10 doesn't cut it at bottom D? This must be a modern Trace? Old ones do plenty of bottom D if you eq it right.

Try knocking the very low end EQ down and boosting up 80 to 100Hz.

If that doesn't work, you're stuffed. If it does work, get the matching 4x10. You don't mix speaker sizes properly, only improperly, unless you biamp the cabs, and then it's not mixed.
 
#18
OP, you've done a couple of things here, I'll explain. First, you touched on a very over done subject, mixing a 15 with a 410. You "assume" the 15 will provide more bottom, but it won't. You can't judge a speakers performance based on driver size. 2nd, when told as much, you told 2 members to F-off, essentially, and that's totally uncool. Hence the further replies. If you wish to participate, ya gotta be nice. So, 410/15, bad, search for all the many reasons why. The best pairing is always gonna be a matching cab, in your case, a TE 8 ohm 4x10, which WILL increase your low end through coupling. Alot to know, but thought I'd get you off the floor here.
 
#20
I thought we just got done with something like 13 pages of this pointless argument.

OP - I wasn't trying to troll with my first comment last night. After that first one, I may have been a touch sarcastic, but I think you kinda had it coming. I'm not sorry. I'm not a d-bag however, and come to this forum to try to be helpful. That said...

Long story short. The driver mixing debate is long, unreasonable, and heated, and we were doing you a big favor trying to steer you away from it. The ohms thing... I really recommend you get a manual for your amp so you know for sure what the impedance of the combo cab is. If it's 8 ohms, you should balance it with another 8 ohm cab. If it's 4 ohms, same thing. Don't guess.

The driver mixing... The other thread is only on page 2, it's like, 7 hours old.
 

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