We have too many cops.

[Korladis]

Actually, license plate laws are primarily for vehicle identification and proof of registration.



No, with the exception of vehicles owned by and registered to the federal government, license plates are issued by states. Therefore, state laws apply in such cases.

As far as I'm aware, aside from on federal property, or as it pertains to federal vehicles, there are no federal automobile laws. Driving laws, for all practical purposes, are made by individual states.

License plate laws reduce road anonymity. If you're being an a$$hole on the road, someone can report your license plate number. I personally can't stand jerk drivers who cut people off, never signal and most of all, drivers who tailgate. If I can see the front license plate, I can report them, even if they're behind me. Front license plates exist for the same reason rear ones do, vehicle identification.

Now I'm not someone who defends cops no matter what, or even someone who's fond of them. I dislike the police in general, my friends think it's funny how I'll become visibly irritated and anxious when there's a cop on the road behind me. As a metalhead (who often dresses in black and has long hair) and a pagan, I am acutely aware that the initial impression many cops have of me will not be a good one.

But when I am stopped for a clear reason (like the illegal left turn I mentioned... it was safe, as no one was coming, but I was still breaking the law), I don't complain about how unfair it is or personal or any of the childish whining that Unrepresented seems so fond of. If I want the law changed, complaining about the police isn't a great way to go about it. They don't make the law, they enforce it.

 

[MatticusMania]

So, yesterday I was on my way home from work and out of no where a moto-cop pulled up behind me and flashed his lights. Admittedly, I was going almost 20 mph over the limit, as was everyone else around me. He took my license and registration and wrote me a speeding ticket. He took an extra minute of my time to tell me about traffic school to keep it off my record and whatnot, and I went on my way. I was so pissed...










at myself, for getting caught.

 

[Unrepresented]

No, but they aren't required in TN.

Unrepresented is packing his bags as we speak.....

I'm fairly sure your state doesn't require public restrooms to include sanitary tissue covers for toilet seats. It's a deal breaker for me.

I think the root problem here is that you don't understand the purpose of the law.

Please enlighten me as to the public safety issues addressed by including a secondary plate.

"We like to make occasional incomplete stops at empty four way intersections, or cross outside of a crosswalk if we think it's safe. Y'know, things that on paper may be illegal, but harm no one so long as we're sensible about them. People prefer a little flexibility in the laws so that things can move a little more smoothly without the rigidity of excessive attention to formalities."

-unrepresented

i tried to stay away from name calling but i think you may be remedial

Steve beat me to it on this it looks like, but in reality most of us would prefer leeway on laws when they're not necessary. The purpose of a law is to protect people, not to make them do rote procedures so that they can behave mindlessly.

You don't understand.

This argument means nothing to most people, they are unable to see past the idea of "the law is the law " to see that some laws are simple ploys to generate income. Usually the people that don't see that are the same ones who complain about Big Brother taking "things" from them.

Quite funny, it is..

+1

where did i ever say that... alot of the "arguers" on this forum sure love to take things out of context..

my point is i dont bitch when i break a law and get in trouble for it

if u want to feel its okay to run stop signs, speed, change lanes without signalling, whatever.. then you must accept the consequences of ur actions

ever hear the saying "if you play with matches your gonna get burned?"

Yes, I agree that these are laws are a benefit to public safety when there are other drivers around, but in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere, is it truly necessary to come to a complete stop at every empty four way stop on your drive home?

Again, the purpose of the law is to protect people by formalizing procedures. When you are alone those extra steps are unnecessary.

 

[jazzy grille]

So, yesterday I was on my way home from work and out of no where a moto-cop pulled up behind me and flashed his lights. Admittedly, I was going almost 20 mph over the limit, as was everyone else around me. He took my license and registration and wrote me a speeding ticket. He took an extra minute of my time to tell me about traffic school to keep it off my record and whatnot, and I went on my way. I was so pissed...










at myself, for getting caught.

Oh wow...

If only I was more sardonic, I may have seen that coming before I finished reading....

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Link Removed

 

[Chebass88]

... these days, law enforcement is also a revenue generating industry...

Ok, I gotta chime in here. An employee ALWAYS costs much more than his or her salary to an organization (company, government agency, etc.). The term is "fully burdened rate", and accounts for the TOTAL costs for an employer for the employee including health insurance, retirement contribution, 401K matching, overhead costs, life insurance, social security, medicare, etc. For a government organization, because of the large amount of overhead, it is typically 4X the yearly salary, and slightly less for private companies, maybe 2X.

According to indeed.com (Invalid Link Removed), the average yearly salary for a police officer in San Diego, CA is $37,000 per year. Assuming a 40 hour per week work schedule and 2 weeks vacation per year (conservative estimates), that means $18.50/hr. At a fully burdened rate of 4X, that would mean each police officer costs the City fo San Diego $74.00 per hour. The OP was stopped 3X for the same offense. Assuming the first time was justified (he didn't know), and also that the average traffic stop is 20 minutes in length, he has wasted $49.58 of tax payers money. Hmmm. The cost of the violations were $20.00 each. 2 X $20 = $40. At best, assuming the OP paid the 2nd & 3rd violations on time & as requested, he still shorted the City. More, if the officer's salary is higher than the figure I used & counting the time for all of the clerks involved in processing said violations.

So NO, it is not a money making institution. Certainly not when you consider the fully burdened rates & total costs to process these violations.

The OP needs a lesson in basic civics. Legislative branches of government act to MAKE laws. Judicial branches act to JUDGE actions against the laws, and executive branches act to ENFORCE existing laws. Whatever the policeman personally thinks of the law, he/she is bound to enforce that. And if that means spending an excess of tax payer money while pulling over a vehicle for the lack of a license plate, they should do it, because it is THEIR JOB. No matter how large or small, they are still bound to enforce the law, and you, by taking part in society are bound to abide by them.

ian

 

[jazzy grille]

Ok, I gotta chime in here. An employee ALWAYS costs much more than his or her salary to an organization (company, government agency, etc.). The term is "fully burdened rate", and accounts for the TOTAL costs for an employer for the employee including health insurance, retirement contribution, 401K matching, overhead costs, life insurance, social security, medicare, etc. For a government organization, because of the large amount of overhead, it is typically 4X the yearly salary, and slightly less for private companies, maybe 2X.

According to indeed.com (Invalid Link Removed), the average yearly salary for a police officer in San Diego, CA is $37,000 per year. Assuming a 40 hour per week work schedule and 2 weeks vacation per year (conservative estimates), that means $18.50/hr. At a fully burdened rate of 4X, that would mean each police officer costs the City fo San Diego $74.00 per hour. The OP was stopped 3X for the same offense. Assuming the first time was justified (he didn't know), and also that the average traffic stop is 20 minutes in length, he has wasted $49.58 of tax payers money. Hmmm. The cost of the violations were $20.00 each. 2 X $20 = $40. At best, assuming the OP paid the 2nd & 3rd violations on time & as requested, he still shorted the City. More, if the officer's salary is higher than the figure I used & counting the time for all of the clerks involved in processing said violations.

So NO, it is not a money making institution. Certainly not when you consider the fully burdened rates & total costs to process these violations.

The OP needs a lesson in basic civics. Legislative branches of government act to MAKE laws. Judicial branches act to JUDGE actions against the laws, and executive branches act to ENFORCE existing laws. Whatever the policeman personally thinks of the law, he/she is bound to enforce that. And if that means spending an excess of tax payer money while pulling over a vehicle for the lack of a license plate, they should do it, because it is THEIR JOB. No matter how large or small, they are still bound to enforce the law, and you, by taking part in society are bound to abide by them.

ian

So, it's the officers job/duty to be a walking waste of tax payer money?

 

[Chebass88]

So, it's the officers job/duty to be a walking waste of tax payer money?

I knew that would come up. Since they did not know that our OP friend had been pulled over twice before, I would not say they were intentionally wasting tax payer money. The OP, however, with flagrant disregard for certain laws, is.

My point was that his actions cost tax payers A LOT of money, particularly when he has been warned several times. Hardly the "money making scheme" referred to earlier.

Thanks!

ian

 

[Wesley R]

a broken window in to get fixed from the last burglary. Oh, yea, I was also thinking that as I fixed the door jamb and wall on the cabin from the same (4th in 6 months) break in.
Yep, not enough cops, exactly correct.
I have been hasseled by the cops before, it was a different time and a way different world.

 

[Unrepresented]

I knew that would come up. Since they did not know that our OP friend had been pulled over twice before, I would not say they were intentionally wasting tax payer money. The OP, however, with flagrant disregard for certain laws, is.

My point was that his actions cost tax payers A LOT of money, particularly when he has been warned several times. Hardly the "money making scheme" referred to earlier.

Thanks!

ian

Just noting that I'm not complaining about it being a money making scheme. I'm only getting a $25 fine, assuming that it's paid within the grace period. I'm just accusing the cops of being dicks.

 

[BlacksHole]

THe financial presentation above is specious at best. If a policeman costs a community $74 per hour, then he makes this same amount eating a doughnut as he does for citing someone for lack of a front plate. At least with the citation, some money is recouped.

 

[jazzy grille]

THe financial presentation above is specious at best. If a policeman costs a community $74 per hour, then he makes this same amount eating a doughnut as he does for citing someone for lack of a front plate. At least with the citation, some money is recouped.

I sure took it with a grain of salt..

It does not account for the fact that that police officer could be writing 3-4 (or more) tickets per hour and also the fact that tickets range from $25 ~ +$200. Lets not forget that there is not just one police officer on duty at a time.

It was some good math though.

 

[D Rokk]

watch out unrepresented

 

[Relic]

All I can say is this...
I have both license plates attached, my inspection sticker is valid and up to date as are my DL, registration and insurance. Maintaining that is not particularly painful or NWO-ish..
I periodically check to be sure that no brake lights or headlights are out when I change my oil, no biggie, I figure it's a safety issue anyway regardless of the law. When coming to a stop sign, I usually come to a full stop out of habit unless I'm coming back from a gig at 3 am and no one's on the road, then I slow down and look both ways and blow on through it. If I get caught (it's happened) I just tell the officer the truth - no one was on the road and I thought I could get away with it.. (never got a ticket for it incidentally
I sometimes go over the posted speed limit but usually never more then 5 or 10 mph tops. I put my cell phone on speaker phone when taking a call, I typically don't look down and fumble with the cd-player, etc and tend to avoid other distractions, not because I'm such an awesomely great person, but more-so because I'm a bonehead and would certainly end up rear-ending somebody. Definitely don't drink and drive.
and guess what? I haven't had a ticket in about 6 years. Yippee. The last time I got pulled over was in 2005 and that was because and my inspection sticker was expired. Totally my fault and the cop was cool with it, no ticket given. The last ticket was when I tried to sneak the wrong way down a one way street. Totally my fault, no conspiracy there at all.
I've had a few bad experiences with cops, trust me but by and large the paranoia here is far bigger than the actual problem..

 

[Unrepresented]

All I can say is this...
I have both license plates attached, my inspection sticker is valid and up to date as are my DL, registration and insurance. Maintaining that is not particularly painful or NWO-ish..
I periodically check to be sure that no brake lights or headlights are out when I change my oil, no biggie, I figure it's a safety issue anyway regardless of the law. When coming to a stop sign, I usually come to a full stop out of habit unless I'm coming back from a gig at 3 am and no one's on the road, then I slow down and look both ways and blow on through it. If I get caught (it's happened) I just tell the officer the truth - no one was on the road and I thought I could get away with it.. (never got a ticket for it incidentally
I sometimes go over the posted speed limit but usually never more then 5 or 10 mph tops. I put my cell phone on speaker phone when taking a call, I typically don't look down and fumble with the cd-player, etc and tend to avoid other distractions, not because I'm such an awesomely great person, but more-so because I'm a bonehead and would certainly end up rear-ending somebody. Definitely don't drink and drive.
and guess what? I haven't had a ticket in about 6 years. Yippee. The last time I got pulled over was in 2005 and that was because and my inspection sticker was expired. Totally my fault and the cop was cool with it, no ticket given. The last ticket was when I tried to sneak the wrong way down a one way street. Totally my fault, no conspiracy there at all.
I've had a few bad experiences with cops, trust me but by and large the paranoia here is far bigger than the actual problem..

I haven't gotten a ticket for a moving violation in roughly that same time frame too. Truth be told I've only gotten two actual "fix-it" tickets in that time, but seem to be a cop magnet for any minor detail that they can use to pull me over and run my license and registration through the system.

On the "to do" list for today is to install a fresh license plate lamp -- I was notified it'd burned out by the last cop who pulled me over.

 

[Korladis]

watch out unrepresented

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Did you ever consider that you maybe got pulled over because you were wearing your stormtrooper helmet?

 

[cheezewiz]

Just noting that I'm not complaining about it being a money making scheme. I'm only getting a $25 fine, assuming that it's paid within the grace period. I'm just accusing the cops of being dicks.

Dick, heal thyself.

 

[Unrepresented]

Did you ever consider that you maybe got pulled over because you were wearing your stormtrooper helmet?

I tried to explain to the officer that a layer of anti-laser mesh beneath a layer of plastoid composite armor is definitely a good supplement to have beyond rudimentary side-impact airbags.

We eventually agreed that we could better prevent against rogue attacks by jedi nights by having me handle blaster and targeting duties while my mom drove.

 

[hbarcat]

Yes, I realize the easy solution is to simply throw a front plate on there (went down to the auto parts store to try and get some pieces), but my whole argument is more about police officers overenforcing minor items. There's always another ordinance they'll abuse to pull me over.

I think very few people realize how undesirable (and dangerous) it is to have laws "on the books" that are not enforced. If it's important enough to have the ordinance to make a behavior illegal, then it's important enough to enforce it. Complacency about enforcement only leads to widespread violations of the law by the public and the inevitable police "picking and choosing" of which violations to enforce.

"Abuse" by police officers is always more common when they are expected to ignore 98% of the offenders because they then have an incentive to cite the 2% for reasons of harassment or vindictiveness.

If it isn't important enough to enforce, then it shouldn't be illegal. Don't complain about getting pulled over - lobby to have the ordinance repealed.