We have too many cops.

[Prof.Dr.Metz]

Let me tell you about police brutality.

Last year I had a cop sit on my head and fart, for absolutely no good reason.


Well, other than the fact that he was my brother and I'd done the same thing to him countless times growing up.

My older bro used to like to shoot me with his c02 pistol when we were kids. It went like this, I'll give you ten seconds to run, one, two, and eight make ten, and then he would procede to shoot me. It wasn't funny at the time.
He became a police officer (as well as half my family and friends). Now i'm a neurotic bass player

 

[Unrepresented]

In honor of unrepresented, I intend to stop a no front plater tonight. I won't write them a ticket or anything, but, you know, just for fun.

I'd absolutely love to hear the opinion of a law enforcement officer if this is a standard traffic stop issue. I usually think of traffic stops being moving violations.

This is so ridiculous. Unrepresented got stopped for a perfectly legitimate reason. He was in violation of the law. Simple as that. The law doesn't say "everyone has to have a front plate, except Unrepresented." Stop acting like it does.

I just got a ticket for an illegal left turn (I had forgotten that in my hometown, at certain corners, you're not allowed to turn left between 3:30 and 6:30 PM), but you don't see me whining about it. I broke the law (albeit unintentionally) and the cop did his job and pulled me over. A pain in the ass? Yes. But excessive enforcement? No.

I hate police brutality as much as the next guy, but I'd hardly call routine pullovers for road violations that.

1) I'm not saying I wasn't in violation, just that IMHO it does not merit three officers pulling me over in a six month period. There are violations that can potentially be assigned to nearly any driver of varying merit and significance if scrutinized heavily enough. Yes, I was out of compliance. Yes, it's within their jurisdiction to stop me for it. Yes, I'd expect there'll be an occasional hard*** that will try and bust me for it under the right circumstances. The frequency of this is what's bugging me.

2) I'm not claiming it's equivalent to police brutality. That's unfair to real victims of police misconduct. I'm just an everyday citizen who doesn't like cops dicking with him over minimal things. Yes, it's only a few traffic stops, but it's still an opportunity for a cop to try and probe me for some greater violation, which feels like a violation, even if not in the same ballpark as police brutality.

3) Yes, I realize the easy solution is to simply throw a front plate on there (went down to the auto parts store to try and get some pieces), but my whole argument is more about police officers overenforcing minor items. There's always another ordinance they'll abuse to pull me over.

 

[lump]

There's always another ordinance they'll abuse to pull me over.

On the way to the Tin Foil Hat Boutique, no doubt.

Considering how many anti-authority threads you start, I think it's safe to say the problem is you.

 

[Unrepresented]

On the way to the Tin Foil Hat Boutique, no doubt.

I've been pulled over around 10 times in the last two years. Only once was for an actual moving violation because I "failed to signal" when pulling into my apartment complex parking lot. That strikes me as excessive, at this point the front plate thing is just making it silly.

Considering how many anti-authority threads you start, I think it's safe to say the problem is you.

Do tell.

 

[PRUNEFACE]

I'd absolutely love to hear the opinion of a law enforcement officer if this is a standard traffic stop issue. I usually think of traffic stops being moving violations.

1) I'm not saying I wasn't in violation, just that IMHO it does not merit three officers pulling me over in a six month period. There are violations that can potentially be assigned to nearly any driver of varying merit and significance if scrutinized heavily enough. Yes, I was out of compliance. Yes, it's within their jurisdiction to stop me for it. Yes, I'd expect there'll be an occasional hard*** that will try and bust me for it under the right circumstances. The frequency of this is what's bugging me.

2) I'm not claiming it's equivalent to police brutality. That's unfair to real victims of police misconduct. I'm just an everyday citizen who doesn't like cops dicking with him over minimal things. Yes, it's only a few traffic stops, but it's still an opportunity for a cop to try and probe me for some greater violation, which feels like a violation, even if not in the same ballpark as police brutality.

3) Yes, I realize the easy solution is to simply throw a front plate on there (went down to the auto parts store to try and get some pieces), but my whole argument is more about police officers overenforcing minor items. There's always another ordinance they'll abuse to pull me over.

If we had enough cops you wouldn't be able to MOVE from one police stop without getting swarmed by four more.

 

[PRUNEFACE]

I've been pulled over around 10 times in the last two years. Only once was for an actual moving violation because I "failed to signal" when pulling into my apartment complex parking lot. That strikes me as excessive, at this point the front plate thing is just making it silly.

Do tell.

Well... I think most people (and parents, which I'm not!) agree that more police are a good thing and that you do seem to have a bit of an uhm, fixation, with "The Man."

 

[Unrepresented]

If we had enough cops you wouldn't be able to MOVE from one police stop without getting swarmed by four more.

Your definition of "enough" seems incredibly unpleasant. I sincereley doubt you'd want to live in such a police state.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

It's not Sheriff John Brown who's after you, is it?

 

[rcarraher]

Oh wait, it's illegal?

Then, I see how this situation got. For ten years, Unrepresented rolled past incompetent cops. Lots of them, probably, as the profession has had waves of popularity through the years. In a recent turn of events, these officers gained maybe better training, maybe a better morale, and today they apply and enforce the law. But the new recruits just kept coming in, even though someone getting his badge today might be twice as efficient as a recruit ten years earlier.

So while a given number of officers could accomplish the necessary work a couple of decades earlier, this same number is now too high, thanks to the competence of today's law enforcement workers.

Ladies and gents, we have to thank Unrepresented for pointing out the improvement in the local police force, and suggesting some money-saving interventions that can be applied while criminals still get what they deserve.

Yeah, their effecincy astounds me, a couple of years back, I dismissed class at a local college, and figured I'd take off late at night for Colorado (hike in Estes Park for a couple days) I decided to leave St. Jo Missouri and take Hwy 36 to Denver, instead of going down to I70, and I figured since I was starting out at 11pm on a Thursday, no traffic. Somewhere in the middle of Kansas, the speed limit dropped from 65 to 35 entering this small town. It did this in less than 100 feet with little or no warning. Yea, I know, obvious speed trap. Well, I started slowing down as soon as I saw the sign, but alass, I passed the 35MPH sign probably going 50 still, immediately there were flashing lights behind me. I pulled over and the local yokle walks up to the window and gets license and reg and proof of insurance of course, before he can walk back to his car a big rig stops going the opposite way and yells at the cop that the other side of the little toen, another big rig has jack knifed and there is a bad accident with multiple injuries and vehicles involved. The trucker tried to contact the locals on his CB but no one was answering, so thats why he stopped. Well, the entire local force on duty was probably standing there with my license and registration of course.

Did the local jump in his car and go to help these injured people? No, he was efficient and spent the next 20 minutes writing me a ticket for doing 50 in a 35 at 1am on a country highway with no other vehicles in site when I commited said offense. I know I fely safer on his stretch of road after that

 

[Unrepresented]

Well... I think most people (and parents, which I'm not!) agree that more police are a good thing and that you do seem to have a bit of an uhm, fixation, with "The Man."

I disagree on both counts.

People don't particularly like cops. People like order. Cops can help maintain order, but people in general like to be able to get away with little things, because we prefer the spirit of the law -- public safety -- more than the letter of it.

We like to make occasional incomplete stops at empty four way intersections, or cross outside of a crosswalk if we think it's safe. Y'know, things that on paper may be illegal, but harm no one so long as we're sensible about them. People prefer a little flexibility in the laws so that things can move a little more smoothly without the rigidity of excessive attention to formalities.

As for me being anti-"the man" I don't know where you and the previous poster came to that conclusion. I actually just went through my thread starting history and the biggest fixation I could come across was my passionate quest for the right fuzz pedal. I changed my custom title in response to all the flack I was getting in this thread, if that's what you're referring to...

 

[Unrepresented]

It's not Sheriff John Brown who's after you, is it?

No. And those rumors going around about that me shooting that deputy are all ill-founded.

 

[Korladis]

1) I'm not saying I wasn't in violation, just that IMHO it does not merit three officers pulling me over in a six month period. There are violations that can potentially be assigned to nearly any driver of varying merit and significance if scrutinized heavily enough. Yes, I was out of compliance. Yes, it's within their jurisdiction to stop me for it. Yes, I'd expect there'll be an occasional hard*** that will try and bust me for it under the right circumstances. The frequency of this is what's bugging me.

The point of pulling you over for lacking a front plate is to motivate you to get one. Clearly, pulling you over the first time wasn't convincing enough, as you did not get a plate. Also, cops don't have a hive mind. The next two to pull you over probably didn't know beforehand that you'd already been pulled over for that. If the frequency of this is bugging you, get a front plate. "I keep breaking the law and it's so annoying when the police try to enforce it."

2) I'm not claiming it's equivalent to police brutality. That's unfair to real victims of police misconduct. I'm just an everyday citizen who doesn't like cops dicking with him over minimal things. Yes, it's only a few traffic stops, but it's still an opportunity for a cop to try and probe me for some greater violation, which feels like a violation, even if not in the same ballpark as police brutality.

Cops aren't "dicking" with you. It's not personal, it's their job to enforce the law. Get over yourself. To a cop, you're just some guy in violation of the license plate law. Not their fault that you chose to ignore the first pullover and continue flouting the law.

Also, enforcing minor things strictly sends a message that they will pursue major crimes just as much, if not more. The basic idea is to give people an idea that since minor crimes are so hard to get away with, major ones will be even more so. Sounds kinda funny, but it has been shown to work.

3) Yes, I realize the easy solution is to simply throw a front plate on there (went down to the auto parts store to try and get some pieces), but my whole argument is more about police officers overenforcing minor items. There's always another ordinance they'll abuse to pull me over.

Technically it's not "abusing" the ordinance, it's enforcing it. What is the point of a law if it is not enforced? It may as well not exist. Why have a law if you're going to let everyone get away with breaking it? Unless they are framing innocent people, they are not over-enforcing the law. Enforcing the law is their job, the point of the existence of police departments.

It seems to me you keep treating this as if it's some personal thing against you. It's not. The state or city governments make laws, and the police forces' jobs are to enforce those laws. If an officer is just on patrol, not on his/her way to a crime scene or anything, why wouldn't they enforce minor laws? It passes the time, brings in revenue, and enforcing the law is what they're paid to do.

If you think the law is unjust, work on changing it. Complaining about the police doing their job is not the way to do that. And, it can be done. For example, the citizens of Santa Cruz, California, voted to make marijuana enforcement classified as the lowest priority of the Santa Cruz Police Department. What the local measure basically did, was effectively make the police unable to bust people for marijuana use unless they were already getting busted for something else as well. This course of action was much more effective than people griping about getting busted by the cops for smoking weed.

 

[jazzy grille]

Cops.. Doing the wrong thing?

A thread in an internet forum!?

Cue apologetic nay-sayers / cop lovers.

 

[lump]

The point of pulling you over for lacking a front plate is to motivate you to get one. Clearly, pulling you over the first time wasn't convincing enough, as you did not get a plate. Also, cops don't have a hive mind. The next two to pull you over probably didn't know beforehand that you'd already been pulled over for that. If the frequency of this is bugging you, get a front plate. "I keep breaking the law and it's so annoying when the police try to enforce it."

Cops aren't "dicking" with you. It's not personal, it's their job to enforce the law. Get over yourself. To a cop, you're just some guy in violation of the license plate law. Not their fault that you chose to ignore the first pullover and continue flouting the law.

Also, enforcing minor things strictly sends a message that they will pursue major crimes just as much, if not more. The basic idea is to give people an idea that since minor crimes are so hard to get away with, major ones will be even more so. Sounds kinda funny, but it has been shown to work.

Technically it's not "abusing" the ordinance, it's enforcing it. What is the point of a law if it is not enforced? It may as well not exist. Why have a law if you're going to let everyone get away with breaking it? Unless they are framing innocent people, they are not over-enforcing the law. Enforcing the law is their job, the point of the existence of police departments.

It seems to me you keep treating this as if it's some personal thing against you. It's not. The state or city governments make laws, and the police forces' jobs are to enforce those laws. If an officer is just on patrol, not on his/her way to a crime scene or anything, why wouldn't they enforce minor laws? It passes the time, brings in revenue, and enforcing the law is what they're paid to do.

If you think the law is unjust, work on changing it. Complaining about the police doing their job is not the way to do that. And, it can be done. For example, the citizens of Santa Cruz, California, voted to make marijuana enforcement classified as the lowest priority of the Santa Cruz Police Department. What the local measure basically did, was effectively make the police unable to bust people for marijuana use unless they were already getting busted for something else as well. This course of action was much more effective than people griping about getting busted by the cops for smoking weed.

Bravo, sir. Could not have said it better. The only common element in the 10 stops is the driver, who is evidently a little slow on the uptake.

 

[PRUNEFACE]

The point of pulling you over for lacking a front plate is to motivate you to get one. Clearly, pulling you over the first time wasn't convincing enough, as you did not get a plate. Also, cops don't have a hive mind. The next two to pull you over probably didn't know beforehand that you'd already been pulled over for that. If the frequency of this is bugging you, get a front plate. "I keep breaking the law and it's so annoying when the police try to enforce it."


Cops aren't "dicking" with you. It's not personal, it's their job to enforce the law. Get over yourself. To a cop, you're just some guy in violation of the license plate law. Not their fault that you chose to ignore the first pullover and continue flouting the law.

Also, enforcing minor things strictly sends a message that they will pursue major crimes just as much, if not more. The basic idea is to give people an idea that since minor crimes are so hard to get away with, major ones will be even more so. Sounds kinda funny, but it has been shown to work.


Technically it's not "abusing" the ordinance, it's enforcing it. What is the point of a law if it is not enforced? It may as well not exist. Why have a law if you're going to let everyone get away with breaking it? Unless they are framing innocent people, they are not over-enforcing the law. Enforcing the law is their job, the point of the existence of police departments.

It seems to me you keep treating this as if it's some personal thing against you. It's not. The state or city governments make laws, and the police forces' jobs are to enforce those laws. If an officer is just on patrol, not on his/her way to a crime scene or anything, why wouldn't they enforce minor laws? It passes the time, brings in revenue, and enforcing the law is what they're paid to do.

If you think the law is unjust, work on changing it. Complaining about the police doing their job is not the way to do that. And, it can be done. For example, the citizens of Santa Cruz, California, voted to make marijuana enforcement classified as the lowest priority of the Santa Cruz Police Department. What the local measure basically did, was effectively make the police unable to bust people for marijuana use unless they were already getting busted for something else as well. This course of action was much more effective than people griping about getting busted by the cops for smoking weed.

+1
if you break any law there is reason to believe that you might be breaking other laws.
That's the law.
I lawled by the way.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

 

[mike_v_s]

Cops.. Doing the wrong thing?

You must have misread the the first post. The cops didn't break the law, they enforced it.

Mike

 

[rcarraher]

That's far too passive an opinion to take, especially on something that we can control.

The third time I pulled over (last weekend) I can understand. It was late. I was driving in an area with a lot of bars. It was probable cause to find out if I was DUI. That I can understand. "The ends (pulling drunk drivers off the road) justifies the means (increased scrutiny in potential traffic offenses)."

If the other stops had been similar I wouldn't be "whining."

I still think busting people for this stuff, is a step down from sitting around eating donuts. At least then, while real crimes are being ignored, the rest of us aren't being harassed.

Driving late in an area where there are bars is NOT probable cause. No more than carrying a hemp hand bag or wearing hemp sanddles is probable cause to search you for marijuna possession. Fact is, cops have been given a "license" by our complacency, that it is probable cause to see if you are DUI because of attitudes like this. They use this implicit "thought process" to go on fishing expositions.

And a good deal of those "drunk" drivers they get off the road, aren't drunk at all, even legally drunk. Check your own state laws, but in Oregon the .08 limit is only for administrative purposes (if you hve a .08, you automatically loose you license, even if you manage to get a clever lawyer that gets you off yu can still get a ticket and a conviction even if you are not over the .08 limit). I know a kid who last year had stopped after work with some friends, they had a beer and his BAC bore this out. An hour and a half later, him a three friends went out on their bikes, got pulled over by four cop cars. One of the cops didn't like this kid I know, arrested him for DUI. impounded is bike ($458.00 for a two mile tow), took him to jail. His breath test came back .02, way under the "limit". They figured he must be on something other than beer, so they did a blood test. No drugs and it was down to .01 by this time. The cop said, I don't care, he was still driving "Under The Influence" he had admitted to one beer. He gets a court appointed attorney (the kid stocks shelves in a chain grocery and for a DUII here, attorneys want a $5K retainer), he's primed to fight it. The attorney says, NEVER fight a first offense. So he pleads, get a 1500 fine, a year of AA meetings, an alcohol treatment facility which will cost him another $5K (all for instructing him not to drink, and go to AA and read this prayer every Thursday....what kind of degree do you have to get to dispense that sage advice?) and loss of license for a year (not that he was over the limit, if he had been they would have been administratively suspended) but because he plead guilty, plus he has to have a breath test gadget hooked up to start his car or bike which also costs him money for a year. this turns out to not be an exception here in Oregon, you can get a DUII (Driving Under the Influence of Intoxicants) for driving on perscription meds, not abusing them, just taking them and driving. Its all up to the discretion of the cop, and the lawyers won't fight it until you are loking at the second or third offense. I'm all for getting drunks off the road, but when the powers that be take that need to keep the road safe and pervert the law to enforce the whims of a cop instead of the spirit of the law, to turn it into a revenue stream instead of a public safety device. Its flat out wrong. And that is "probable cause' that we are stupid for letting them

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

+1. Some of us have had better experiences with the police than others. It doesn't give either side the moral high ground in this debate. Whether you like excessive police presence or not, no one is going to accomplish anything by taking shots at Unrepresented.


At the same time, I remember when I had my own little unfortunate encounter with the wrong end of the law, and while a lot of the pro-police people gave me a lot of excrement for it, cheezewiz wasn't one of them. Since he's a cop instead of an armchair citizen, I think that says a lot.

So while there are an awful lot of dumb laws, and an awful lot of awesome policemen (and vice versa), its not nearly as black and white as most of the regulars in this thread make it out to be.

 

[P. Aaron]

I've been pulled over around 10 times in the last two years. Only once was for an actual moving violation because I "failed to signal" when pulling into my apartment complex parking lot. That strikes me as excessive, at this point the front plate thing is just making it silly.

Do tell.

I've always thought that blinkers/turn signals should be offered as optional (rather than standard) equipment on autos. That way, when folks did pay extra to have the turn-signal option installed on their car, they'd use the damn things.

Other than that, these days, law enforcement is also a revenue generating industry. We used to rely on legitmate businesses to provide some of that kinda dough for municipalities, but they aren't very welcome anymore...it seems.