So I am getting a weaker sound when bowing the E string when playing in 1/2 position compared to the other strings, mostly D and G. Not sure exactly what I could be doing wrong, or if this is a common thing. This seems to only happen when playing arco. Sounds fine pizz. I know this is probably a long shot without actually seeing what I am doing, but are there any tips when playing this position? or bowing tips with the lowest strings?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Weak Sound (E string Bowed - 1/2 position)
- Thread starter Mikey3
- Start date
Many basses are less resonant in this register, so you actually need to compensate accordingly. Intonation on the E string is paramount. Work with a chromatic tuner; the ear cannot properly identify slight variations in the fundamental this low, and the best way to make your sound bigger and clearer is to play perfectly in tune.
If it is not a bass set-up problem such as sound post adjustment, brand of strings,etc., or a built-in weakness of sound on certain notes then perhaps check out the following -
(1) Bow contact point. The E string sounds weak and indistinct when bowed over the fingerboard (Sul Tasto), perhaps more so than the A and D strings (but avoid sul tasto on the G string!!). It also quickly becomes stiff and harsh sounding as you move the bow towards the bridge. Try around 1 - 2 inches below the fingerboard
(2) Check out the ways you are sitting and standing to ensure that you are maintaining a 90 degree angle to the E string as you bow for best sound. If the bass leans a long way towards you this may change both the contact point and angle of bow to strings as you cross from higher strings.
(3) As well as the contact point check out the bow speed and weight you are using when the sounds are weak. The heavy E string requires less speed and some more weight, and some more care with contact point. As each string becomes thinner it generally progressively needs a faster bow speed to support the faster vibrations. On all strings there can be a trade off between each of the three variables for tone and projection.
(4) Are your LH fingers not quite getting the string down firmly on the fingerboard? If your wrist is heavily pronated to play on the E string this can rob your fingers of strength so look at the way you stand and sit and try altering the angle of the bass to your body. Also compare the sound when you play A flat with first your pinkie then your 2nd finger
(5) Is the string clearance at the nut too high? It should not be much more than the thickness of a business card.
(6) Try varying bow hair tension a 1/4 turn at a time, up and down, to bend the hair around the strings and get the best sound and attack with your bow.
I will often not use more than the lower half of the bow (the "comfort zone") for E string notes unless they are longer. I stay away from the end of the fingerboard except for fast passages, take care with note starts and use a slower speed and more weight to ensure that the string starts quickly, moves strongly and generates a full sound. I have seen my colleagues use longer, faster bows that moved the strings widely and yet they have produced a weaker sound that lacked focus and projection. Visually I was at odds with them and had some trouble with conductors who wanted us to lash at the bottom notes with fast full bows.
For tone and weight of sound try going back to basics. With contact point about 2" below the fingerboard and using firm but not heavy weight gradually slow the bow speed down until you can feel the weight of the vibrating E string resist the bow movement. You should see and feel the string move widely and produce a heavy warm sound for very little input from you. The bow hair bending over the string feels hooked onto the sound and as you speed up and slow down, plus or minus a bit of weight, the string should go with you. Avoid bow skid (too fast and light) or crushed sounds (too slow and heavy). I liken it to a surf board propelling the wave rather than being propelled.
Lots of fun experimenting?
Cheers, DP
(1) Bow contact point. The E string sounds weak and indistinct when bowed over the fingerboard (Sul Tasto), perhaps more so than the A and D strings (but avoid sul tasto on the G string!!). It also quickly becomes stiff and harsh sounding as you move the bow towards the bridge. Try around 1 - 2 inches below the fingerboard
(2) Check out the ways you are sitting and standing to ensure that you are maintaining a 90 degree angle to the E string as you bow for best sound. If the bass leans a long way towards you this may change both the contact point and angle of bow to strings as you cross from higher strings.
(3) As well as the contact point check out the bow speed and weight you are using when the sounds are weak. The heavy E string requires less speed and some more weight, and some more care with contact point. As each string becomes thinner it generally progressively needs a faster bow speed to support the faster vibrations. On all strings there can be a trade off between each of the three variables for tone and projection.
(4) Are your LH fingers not quite getting the string down firmly on the fingerboard? If your wrist is heavily pronated to play on the E string this can rob your fingers of strength so look at the way you stand and sit and try altering the angle of the bass to your body. Also compare the sound when you play A flat with first your pinkie then your 2nd finger
(5) Is the string clearance at the nut too high? It should not be much more than the thickness of a business card.
(6) Try varying bow hair tension a 1/4 turn at a time, up and down, to bend the hair around the strings and get the best sound and attack with your bow.
I will often not use more than the lower half of the bow (the "comfort zone") for E string notes unless they are longer. I stay away from the end of the fingerboard except for fast passages, take care with note starts and use a slower speed and more weight to ensure that the string starts quickly, moves strongly and generates a full sound. I have seen my colleagues use longer, faster bows that moved the strings widely and yet they have produced a weaker sound that lacked focus and projection. Visually I was at odds with them and had some trouble with conductors who wanted us to lash at the bottom notes with fast full bows.
For tone and weight of sound try going back to basics. With contact point about 2" below the fingerboard and using firm but not heavy weight gradually slow the bow speed down until you can feel the weight of the vibrating E string resist the bow movement. You should see and feel the string move widely and produce a heavy warm sound for very little input from you. The bow hair bending over the string feels hooked onto the sound and as you speed up and slow down, plus or minus a bit of weight, the string should go with you. Avoid bow skid (too fast and light) or crushed sounds (too slow and heavy). I liken it to a surf board propelling the wave rather than being propelled.
Lots of fun experimenting?
Cheers, DP
Last edited:
David's response is indeed encyclopedic, thorough and thoughtful. I believe just based on the description you gave that the short answer (total guess) is that your bow speed is too fast on the E string. The most important lesson I've ever learned for playing across strings is that most of life's problems can be solved by using less bow. How slow can you move the bow? Once you're trying to do that, you'll find a place where the bow doesn't fight as hard (somewhat distant from the bridge) and you can try to build out from there.
I appreciate all the replies, and I think that the issue must be a combination of a few things. Lots of food for thought and I will certainly put these suggestions into the next few practice sessions. I played around for 5 mins before heading to work and reading these replies and I did find some differences when I used more weight from the bow and I also used a bit more rosin. I think the rosin did help as I havent been using very much at all. I didn't think it was a speed issue because the open E was sounding fine, it was just when I stated to move into different positions in the neck when things started sounding weak, and I didn't get this same weak sound when pizz, so I figured my left hand wasn't the culprit. I had also thought that maybe it was my strings, but I put on a different set and same type of problem, so it wasn't the strings either. I think I am really going for focus on contact point and bow angle of the strings. I am sure better intonation will help too. I will try it all and report back what worked and what didn't
thanks all for the thoughtful replies
Mikey
thanks all for the thoughtful replies
Mikey
