• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Weird band situation, looking for advice

B

Bob Palmer

Apr 17, 2013
112
1
#1
Hey all! I find myself in a weird position and wanted to tap into the collective awesomeness that is TalkBass for some advice.

Several weeks ago I enquired about an open bassist position with an all-originals band - good following, excellent music (definitely radio friendly), etc.

Played once acoustically with the singer/songwriter/guitarist, then got invited to a second session with the drummer (who had been with the band a couple of years) at a rehearsal studio - again, all went well.

A couple of days later I was forwarded the confirmed gig list (including some nice venues in NYC), asked if I could make these dates, etc. - so it looked like I was part of the band.

A couple of days later, I am told that there are issues with the drummer (cited as being 'uncooperative' about some of the coming gigs), and asked to come into the rehearsal studio to help with auditioning a new drummer. By this time I've memorized their entire set of originals (about a dozen songs) so no issues on my side playing that I could tell, but the drummer stank ;)

Ultimately the band leader had to cancel the first live gig on our list because of lack of drummer. A couple of days later, I receive a text message that the band is breaking up, and that the BL is going to reboot it with a new name.

Some basic research on my own shows that not only did he do a reboot, but he also picked up both a drummer and a bassist - so essentially both the existing drummer and myself were dropped from the band. In fairness he did apologize for wasting my time, but still. Kinda ****** given that the only reason I grabbed a 5-string and had it retuned was to have it for this band's gigs.

Fast forward two weeks. Last night I get a new text message - in short, that the new sound was not working, and that he wanted to give me the first opportunity to come back to the band permanently. Understood if I declined, apologized for the past two weeks, but felt that I was the best fit for the band, ands hoped we could move forward.

So. More flies into the ointment. I'm in my 40's, BL is in his late 20's, and while youth is not an excuse, it's a relevant detail. Also, in that same two weeks I just started jamming with another originals band - bit older, good tunes, and with a lot of creative freedom. But no gigs yet, and things are just starting out, so I have no idea if this one will stick or not.

So on the one hand, I can decline the re-invite citing that I am in a new project (worst case is that they end up not being active, and I'm in the market again). Also citing that if he was so casual about dropping bandmates (twice in a couple of weeks), that's probably a sign of things to come.

On the other hand, it could have just been a case where there was a breakup with the drummer, and his new drummer came as a matched set with a bassist, and he just made a bad call, i.e. benefit of the doubt. Worst case here would be that both bands get very active and I have to juggle competing schedules.

Thoughts?
 
#2
Given that he (1) apologized for wasting your initial time and (2) said he would understand if you declined, I would say you got yourself a band leader with at least a minimal amount of class. You do not know the background story / history that went on between him and the first drummer, nor what exactly went down with the other rhythm section. If you like the music, give him a second chance. But leave it at that, i.e. no third chances :)
 
#3
Warning: I'm gonna go all negative on ya in 2 seconds. :) First I'll say if you like the bands and intend on doing regardless of what I say in the second part of this post, play with em all till something sticks. You never know what's going to happen. I wouldn't hold the first guys actions against him. Gonna guess as you did that the drums and bass he found came as a team, and sucked.

As for the negative stuff, I put this out here in hopes that solutions come of it.

I've been playing with lots of different bands for over 20 years. More original that covers, but I've got no problem playing anything. Cover bands pay (obviously) and my time is compensated for. The orignal stuff though has become an issue however. So much so that I've finally decided I will not get involved with any more original bands unless they're:

A. Playing my music.
B. Paying.
C. Playing A rooms only (Bowery/Highline Ballroom, Irving Plaza... that kind of stuff).

Here's what's happened over and over and over... I get into a band playing someone's music. They make claims to wanting to make it a "band" where everyone collaborates and writes. I get a year into it investing a whole lot of time and effort. They keep wanting to run the show and make all the decisions. Any difference of opinions becomes "drama". They find someone else willing to do exactly what they want, and smile while doing it, or things just get really ugly and I have to leave.

Unless you're the guy who's willing to smile while playing someone else's music and work your ass off for their vision, then I'd suggest rethinking the whole getting into someone else's band situation.

I've gotten lucky in some instances as I've gotten into some really happening bands, gotten to so some awesome tours in other countries, made some money - but the time I've invested in the bands that didn't work out have taught me a few lessons I wish I'd learned a little earlier in the game. It's all experience, so it's all good, but I think it's important to know what our goals are, and then go for them. Leaving your future in the hands of other band leaders (like the guy sounds in your post) is potentially time wasting stuff. Unless your name is going into the copyright and publishing of anything that gets done, or we figure out a better way of doing this. The ABC above is right now my solution. I'm much happier lately also.

Last note here: I've also learned that anyone who says they're looking for a drama free situation is looking for people who will agree 100% with everything they want to do. Any disagreement = drama.
 
#4
O.K.
Let's assume that the new drummer did in fact come with a bassist as a matched set.
Now the B.L. has determined that said bassist sucks. Now he gives you a call.

What about this new drummer ?
Does he suck too?
Is B.L. looking to replace him too ?

Is there a new drummer? OR did he leave too when his bassist got sacked ?

What is the deal about the only reason you picked up a "5er", and had it retuned???? was to accommodate this band ???

I believe in giving people chances, but

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
 
#5
EddiePlaysBass said:
Given that he (1) apologized for wasting your initial time and (2) said he would understand if you declined, I would say you got yourself a band leader with at least a minimal amount of class. You do not know the background story / history that went on between him and the first drummer, nor what exactly went down with the other rhythm section. If you like the music, give him a second chance. But leave it at that, i.e. no third chances :)
Click to expand...

+1, I agree here. Completely. Keep it simple. Obviously if it happens again a short amount of time later, dont involve yourself with it any longer. My opinion.
 
#7
I am curious myself about what happened to drummer #2 - I basically sent a text asking about that. Because if they both got sacked and he's looking for a drummer again... I am not touching that with a 20' pole until the drummer situation is resolved.

RE the bass - normally I play four string, but the band had some weird tunings that I needed a 5 for, so I had picked one up once I was asked about committing to show dates... only to have things fall apart a week later. Would likely have picked one up eventually anyway, so no biggie.


xgator4u said:
O.K.
Let's assume that the new drummer did in fact come with a bassist as a matched set.
Now the B.L. has determined that said bassist sucks. Now he gives you a call.

What about this new drummer ?
Does he suck too?
Is B.L. looking to replace him too ?

Is there a new drummer? OR did he leave too when his bassist got sacked ?

What is the deal about the only reason you picked up a "5er", and had it retuned???? was to accommodate this band ???

I believe in giving people chances, but

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
Click to expand...
 
#9
I don't think you can win here. Stick with 'A' and potentially regret it down the road if 'B' turns out, or return to 'B' and find yourself down the road wishing you'd stuck with 'A'
*SIGH*
Can you do both? I know that's a 'have your cake thing' but IF you can balance it it may be the best call.
Failing that you'll have to roll the dice and chalk the outcome up to life lessons 101.
However if you choose to return to 'B' make damn sure you find out why the reboot failed to include you, and now that it's reboot MKII why it fails to include your replacement. If he's straight up that'll really help with the decision, and if he's all evasive that'll REALLY help with the decision.

Good Luck and Good Hunting
:D
 
#10
I'd be open to another go. Sounds like your band leader is at the very least somewhat honest. --He said it was a reboot without saying who was going to be in the new version up front. That's better than being told that the band is breaking up... then find out it rebooted without you.

That tells me that he is uncomfortable with lying and that's a trait I love in a bandleader even if he hasn't yet grown the spine to just up and fire people. Nothing is worse than a BL who is comfortable with dishonesty.
 
#11
Just want to expand a little on my first post. Realized also that it was inspired also by the fact that you said the initial drummer was canned because of his issues with a few gigs. Sounds like the guy putting it together is exactly the type of person I myself wind up in trouble with. The story of my last episode with people of that sort went like this...

Got into the band with the understanding that it was a "band", meaning we'd all be equal members. Since the person putting it together already had a lot of work invested I was willing to go along with what they already had rolling. Sacrificed a lot of time and money, and even agreed to doing a short tour where I'd make no money... But wouldn't have to spend anything. I considered it a vacation. I did lose money by taking off from my day job. Tour went excellently. So much so that the "BL" decided they wanted to make this a monthly thing. Meaning I'd be missing about a weeks worth of work at my day job, to support what was still essentiallly "their" band. If I didn't want to do it, they had someone who would. Get it?

Same would go for playing 1AM gigs on a Tuesday night with this type of person. I can't and wont do that kind of stuff anymore. Not for someone elses music. A band has to either already be in a position I want it to be, I have to be getting paid, or we all have to start on equal footing. Won't get involved anymore in someone else's vision unless its already completely realized and reaping rewards.
 
#12
What's interesting is that the second band I just practiced with addressed a lot of this moment one - basically that everything is divided equally, and I have 100% creative freedom on the bass parts and will be able to contribute to new material (they have a solid three sets of originals already, just no bass parts - they were played out as an acoustic duo).

RE the first band (the one with the re-invite) I'm really curious not only what happened to the new drummer, but what happened with the bassist before me, etc. - and will be drilling in for some details before any commitment, because I def. hear what you're saying.

On the flip side, for me this is all about getting experience (I've never played out before - so anything that does not involve an outlay of cash at least gets me past punching the ticket of 'Have gigged more than rehearsals and my living room'), but there also has to be an appreciable end game.

Joe Nerve said:
Just want to expand a little on my first post. Realized also that it was inspired also by the fact that you said the initial drummer was canned because of his issues with a few gigs. Sounds like the guy putting it together is exactly the type of person I myself wind up in trouble with. The story of my last episode with people of that sort went like this...

Got into the band with the understanding that it was a "band", meaning we'd all be equal members. Since the person putting it together already had a lot of work invested I was willing to go along with what they already had rolling. Sacrificed a lot of time and money, and even agreed to doing a short tour where I'd make no money... But wouldn't have to spend anything. I considered it a vacation. I did lose money by taking off from my day job. Tour went excellently. So much so that the "BL" decided they wanted to make this a monthly thing. Meaning I'd be missing about a weeks worth of work at my day job, to support what was still essentiallly "their" band. If I didn't want to do it, they had someone who would. Get it?

Same would go for playing 1AM gigs on a Tuesday night with this type of person. I can't and wont do that kind of stuff anymore. Not for someone elses music. A band has to either already be in a position I want it to be, I have to be getting paid, or we all have to start on equal footing. Won't get involved anymore in someone else's vision unless its already completely realized and reaping rewards.
Click to expand...
 
#15
Originals bands fail allot more than cover bands IMO. There is a sight musically a person see's and often they can't make happen or they feel they can't find the right people...also allot of them are flakes.

Even thou the guy was cool to you and all I feel he is young and fakey. If I were you I would stay away and continue with the other group or keep searching.

I have seen many good original bands with bookings all over the place lose members and change lineups like crazy..I never understood it myself.
 
#17
I've been involved with bands and players like "this". The problem is when you have a bandleader with the personality you seem to be describing, nothing gets done and there's always something that isn't right. Essentially it sounds like he just wants a band for hire, but doesn't understand that.

Honestly, I'm from the area and it sounds alot like someone I've dealt with as well. I could be way off of course, but if it IS the same situation it seems like it was exactly as I described above.
 
#18
Bob Palmer said:
On the flip side, for me this is all about getting experience (I've never played out before - so anything that does not involve an outlay of cash at least gets me past punching the ticket of 'Have gigged more than rehearsals and my living room'), but there also has to be an appreciable end game.
Click to expand...

Then I'd say go for it. Important thing is to know what it is you're looking to get out of the situation. In this case it sounds like you can only gain. I was looking for other things.
 
#19
As a fellow bassist in his 40s with a day job who plays regularly in NYC clubs for little or no money, I hear what you're saying. I was completely behind the "give him another chance" idea until your last post. Didn't you say the original drummer stank? Trust me; even if the BL turns out to be an honorable (albeit flaky) guy, if you don't have a lot of experience playing out yet and you plan to get that experience with a bad drummer you will end up very frustrated.

I currently play with five different projects in NYC and some of them gig regularly but I make VERY little money - if any - at any of these shows, so I totally get the idea that you're doing this with no other agenda than to be out there doing it - which i think is a legit reason. The players on this forum who are pro or semi-pro will obviously have different reasons for involving themselves with verious projects - reasons that are every bit as legit for their situations.

In YOUR situation, it sounds to me like you'd be better off with the older guys who are giving you more freedom, especially if they are gig-experienced and can help you up to their level. If you have no deadline to be playing gigs by and you have no need for gig income (unlikely for someone with no gig experience anyway) then why struggle with a weak drummer while you're learning the ropes? It sounds to me like the older band is a much more comfortable environment in which you can get some experience and some mentorship and have some low-stress fun. Remember: when there's no money at stake, the gig has got to be fun. If it's not, don't feel obligated to stick around because it's "the professional thing to do". This isn't your profession, so make sure you take care of your needs - to get some experience in the most enjoyable way possible.

Best of luck-
E
 
#20
Thanks for all of the awesome advice everyone! Got a rehearsal invite - so I'm going to see what has changed, etc. and see how the dynamic is and give the BL a mulligan (primarily because he at least tried to be decent about the situation), since right now it's in line with my short term goals (and I already know all of their songs, so no investment). But definitely going in with eyes wide open.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back