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Double Bass weird Juzek (NYC guys)

#21
Benedict Lang according to Henley; Mittenwald c.1925, mainly Basses. That's all I know of him as well as he made many Plywood Basses according to Elgar.

Vavra is still around as well as Eibert. You can maybe hunt Vavras' # down and ask him about working for Ideal.

As far as Wilfer goes, I would assume he made (and maybe contracted) Basses for many firms including ones sold with his own label as many Juzek Master Art models had the Wilfer Label left inside them.
 
#22
What a great little piece of bass history.....especially with the name Juzek being so well repected, especially in terms of really good, consistent jazz basses. Ron Carters bass alone has gotten players really interested in the name.

Big kudos to Kenny Boy for hanging in (as usual) and doing his homework to find really interesting, and more importantly FACTUAL historical facts about our instrument.

greene's historical family stuff has also been a real kick in the pants for us as well!
This stuff is what makes TBDB such an important resource for players, luthiers and just plain interested individuals.

Thanks you guys!
 
#23
Around 1973 when in Fred Oliveros' Shop on 7th ave, I saw Rons' Bass on the horses(bench) with the top off. It looked to be a plain-jane German factory Bass. Fred said, "That's Ron Carters' Bass". I took one look and looked away. No interest at all as far as a Bass goes. A few years eariler I was in Fantonis' shop and he pointed out on his bench "that's Percy Heaths' Bass, it's a Landolfi". That got my attention. Another time I saw Jack Lesbergs' Pallotta. These kinds of Basses interest me the most.

I have also worked with Ron on one occasssion with 4 Basses in the section. He was right in front of me and I never heard a single note. Who here has ever played his Bass or heard it Live without an Amplifier. Any Bass can sound huge in an Amp or on a record especially with Rudy VanGelder at the controls. That however, does not make a great Bass.

In one Article around 1970 in maybe Downbeat they referred to a Juzek (maybe Rons' but I don't recall) as being 150 years old. That was in 1970. Juzek was born in the late 1800s. If his first Violin was 1910-11 then I give his birth date around 1890 or so. His brother Robert was 70ish born around 1900. I would have to call Bobby Juzek his son to confirm that. The point is that I have heard so much False Hype on Juzek Basses that I hate hearing the name. That and the fact he naver made a single Bass in his life makes it hard to call any Bass a Juzek to me. I have seen a few older Wilfers (Juzek USAs) from Czech. One I owned was labelled Anton Wilfer 1936 and another one I see on occassion in one of the Orchestras with a slightly different shaped Purfling Design in the upper back that may be older. I will try to look at the Label this upcomming season if I see the Bass again. I do not believe all the dates people claim on these Basses. Most of them are Post WWII but I keep hearing all these claims of 1910-1920 that just don't seem possible as it pre-dates their commercial Business not to mention the Basses barely look 50 years old as well.... Your thoughts on this guys?
 
#24
People love to talk, Kenny Boy. Lookit us! For instance, I've always heard Percy's bass was a Ruggieri.
I think it's particularly bad with basses, because up until now, it's been wide open territory. Not alot of people know too much about basses. I guess it's " The final Frontier "
I've heard some people say some really bazarre things, knowing that nobody knows the diff.
There's a guy in Denver that has a nice little German shop bass...you know, with the hat peg tuners. He just has to make people think it's something more, so he says:" It's a 300 year old Italian bass, a Morelli" We all know there was no Morelli and that they aren't Italian..... His little German flat-back sounds better than many Italian basses for jazz, but we all gotta have people think we got the best.
 
#25
Paul, I have heard Percys' Bass called a Ruggieri, Testori and originally a Landolfi. It seems that each decade they find a more famous name for it. I would believe Fantoni's attribution to Landolfi b4 a Testore or Ruggieri. Maybe it's a Juzek made in the Strad Shop.. Huh?... Lol

As far as German Shop Basses sounding better for Jazz there is a reason. Most finer Italian, English, etc. Basses are set-up and Strung-up for Orchestra playing. Most Jazz Players stay away from Orchestra type strings. Few Jazz players own a Fine English or Italian Bass and less can even afford them now. To amplify a Bass you need an easier tone than a thick organ fundamental Bass note. Thinner sounding German type Basses work better in this situation as they can amplify clearer in the Lower register. Most pickups and Speakers cannot reproduce the true Low 'E fundamental easily. My Gilkes barely gets by with it's deep 'E' using a Shadow PU. The Martini is so deep on the Bottom I am afraid it will hurt the speaker.

Recently an Orchestra musician after loosing a Gagliano in a Fire tried out my Martini and liked it until he Bowed the 'G' String.. "Ah, too much Treble" and put it back in the rack. It has Original Flexocor Blues.. If it had Spiro Reds, he would have never even made it to the 'G' string. In the Basses I have owned in the last several years, my best Jazz type Bass is my Worst Orchestra Bass and Vicea-versa.
 
#28
Kenny..I don't know much, but I do know about the diff between a classical set up and a jazz. This was in the days of the old Lycon strings, so we put a set on the Gagliano, after having taken off the Eudoxa Orchestras.
And yes, we did have to tighten our seat belts. It kicked ass!!!!
By the way, this Gagliano had the open back to the peg-box. Also, like the one in "Looking At The Double Bass", it had those beautiful full plates with the ivory turners. The full tuning plates had hammer marks in them where they had hand hammered them.
 
#29
Paul, I saw a Bass like that back around 1969-70. It was at a repair shop, James Callman on 8th avenue. It was a 3/4 Gagliano for sale. I was very young then and didn't know a fraction of what I know now even to look at Basses but I remember the open Peg Box in the Back. The price was $2,500. Back then 1-2k got you an Italian Bass but who needed one except for the guys in the Symphony? A German/Czech Bass ran about $200.

If I only had a 'Time Machine'... Just after I got my Bernadel in Philly a Gasparo D'Salo came up for sale... Big BUCKS... They wanted $8k for it... Yea sure.. who had 8K to spend on a Bass then...?
 
#30
I guess this is all good news for folks who want the Juzek sound but don't want to pay for the hype. They can just get a high-end Paesold (Hofner) or Wilfer for less money. I had a Rauner recently that I was borrowing from school, which is the West Coast Juzek equivalent from school which looked exactly like the new Paesolds so it was probably made by Hofner. It was kind of hard sounding but was plently loud and had lots of sustaing and would be great for Jazz. It might be good for arco too if the top was thinned a little. It had violin corners and antiqued finish, but the wood was rather plain so it was the level below master-art. BTW, that $15,000 price for a master-art might not be that far off since new Wilfer black diamonds sell for at least that If I remember correctly. If the bass is in good condition and has been played in, it might be worth it.

Jon
 
#31
greene said:
And this Benedikt Lang I just found in the warehouse ... I've been wondering about this bass since this is one of the names I don't know, nor do I have a clue how old it is. Do you know anything about Lang? I was told Anton Semmlinger who I know made many of the cellos we still have had worked for Lang and then bought out his shop but I don't really know. Do you happen to know anything about this ?
Click to expand...
Lang does rate an entry in Elgar's Looking At The Double Bass (1967):

Worked at Mittenwald this century. Also Rudolph Lang who is currently working in Mittenwald. Commercial business making basses of many types, three-quarter size, shoulders sloping similar to the French pear model. Outside linings. Makes a great many plywood basses, but the fine hand made instruments are splendid specimens and whilst still new, not so attractive in tone as they will be later when matured.
Click to expand...
I'm always curious about finding more about him and his shop as well as I have a Benedikt Lang labeled bass.
 
#32
As there were several Langs and several grades of Basses from Plywoods to Handmades as well as a large 'Commercial' Business, there is no telling 'who' actually made the Basses with Lang Labels.

Here is a nice 'Lang' 5er in London now 4sale; http://www.contrabass.co.uk/2663.htm

Again, Construciton, Sound, Looks, Condition, Playability, Use-ability, Repairs, Etc. determine the Value of these Shop Basses and NOT the Label in them.

Also, for comparisons see these as well; [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

When you compare English and Italian Basses they don't usually look so similar between makers. The Germans often stick with an idea once accepted as did many of the 19th century French.
 
#33
I like the Hungarian...the Rubner Busetto looks like it's melting. Also looks like he couldn't decide where to put the FF hole or whatever you wanna call 'em.
The Rubner doesn't make my bathroom....The Hungarian does. The Pollman is nice, but questionable. I don't like the machines.
 
#34
Paul, that's the thing about these German Shop Basses. 'Not much to write home about' or 'take to the bathroom..

Now..., the Hungarians... That's different story.. Here's a few to load your gun...;

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
http://www.contrabass.co.uk/2583.htm

The first one which is mine is currently at Arnolds being restored and being converted to a 5er for Orchestra. I will use Permanents on the 3 bottom strings and Flexocor for G&D.
 
#35
Here's two older Basses as well from Hungary (Budapest or just Pest). From c.1825; Invalid Link Removed
and from 1907; Invalid Link Removed

I like the Hungarins more than the Germans in design ideas within the past 200 years of making. The older ones are Vieneese in design from the Austro-Hungary period/region. The later 20th and 21st century designs are of Italian influence. It is said of this school that they followed the Italians in design for Violins but not the Basses as far as the oldies go. Things have changed from what I can see. Every Hungarian Bass in the last 50 years looks Italian to me. It's about time the Basses caught up....
 
#37
I don't know if it was made that way, touched up or re-finished. This Bass was Antiqued inside and out to look much older than it is. After re-graduation in the Top, the Pine/Spruce? looks much newer than 50-60 years as originally estimated. We are thinking 10-20 years now at most, maybe less. The Top is not 2 pieces as I first thought. It has added wings on both sides but the joint is interrupted by the C bout. This makes it a 4-piece top, Italian style.

Still with all the fake aging, the seams popped all over, the Bass Bar barely attached in two spots to the top and the Cross Bars loose, this Bass sounded Huge and Old. Arnold and I were joking that after it's all fixed up it probably won't sound half as good... But we are just joking.. I hope..lol
 
#39
Okay, here's what's up with the bass that began this thread. I took it in to David Gage's shop, where Michael replaced the fingerboard and bridge, repaired a couple of minor cracks, and generally inspected the seams.

Michael describes it as "a good bass," Czek or German, constructed some time before WWII. It has that purfling design below the neck on the back--the bottom part looks like a heart and the top part looks like the Ballantine Beer logo-- so it was most likely sold under the Juzek brand, although another company did use the same carving.

The bass is still new to me, and I think it is still acclimating itself to its new fingerboard, but so far I think it sounds great. It's not as loud as my "old" bass, but it has this old wood sound, a subtlety kind of like a fine wine. I amplified it with the Realist at a practice with my quintet, and it sounded great amplified.

When I first got it home I had kept switching back and forth between my two basses, driving myself crazy. I initially figured that the difference between the two, which seemed slight at the time, probably wouldn't warrant my keeping the Juzek, which I could probably sell for significantly more money than the Wan Bernadel. But my teacher, Joe Solomon, talked me down from that ledge and told me to just play the Juzek for a while and try not to jump to any hasty decisions. He offered to put up one of my basses in his studio if it was a problem in my apartment.

It was sound advice. The more I play it the more I like the Juzek, and the more I realize that the initial small difference I perceived between the two basses is huge.

The bright sound and clarity of the Wan Bernadel has its merits, and the sound might mature over time, but because of my space limitations in my apartment I'm going to have to part with it, somewhat sadly. Let me know if anyone is interested.
 

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