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Weird song forces cool technique...

#21
Originally posted by geshel

Angus, your technique if I understand correctly seems like it's wasteful because you're always plucking one muted string, and your plucking finger needs to move a greater distance. With the one-finger-per-string technique, each finger only has to move a little bit.
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It would be plucking a muted string, if it were string skipping. But, like I said, I wasn't talking about skipping strings! On adjacent strings, it's LESS movement, because you get two strings with each finger movement.

If that's not what you mean, then I don't think I follow you. Would you mind clarifying, please?
 
#23
Originally posted by Angus


It would be plucking a muted string, if it were string skipping. But, like I said, I wasn't talking about skipping strings! On adjacent strings, it's LESS movement, because you get two strings with each finger movement.

If that's not what you mean, then I don't think I follow you. Would you mind clarifying, please?
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I thought what you were saying was: to play alternately the open D and the D on the 7th fret G, play both strings every pluck, just mute the one you're not playing that beat with your left hand.

I was describing doing so by playing the open D with the index finger and the high D with the middle finger, alternating.
 
#24
Originally posted by CrawlingEye

You only pluck one string with one finger, rather than two strings with two fingers.
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Wouldn't that be the same thing? With "my" way, you're hitting two strings with 1 finger, or 4 strings with 2 fingers. You have half as many strokes with your right hand as opposed to 1 string/1 finger.

With "my" way, there's also no need to mute with your left hand, because it's done with the right, a la Willis. As soon as you strike through the first string, your next finger comes to mute it (getting in position to strike it) while the first finger then strikes the next string. That string then gets muted as your second finger strikes the higher string, etc etc. Half the motion.
 
#25
Originally posted by Angus



Wouldn't that be the same thing? With "my" way, you're hitting two strings with 1 finger, or 4 strings with 2 fingers. You have half as many strokes with your right hand as opposed to 1 string/1 finger.

With "my" way, there's also no need to mute with your left hand, because it's done with the right, a la Willis. As soon as you strike through the first string, your next finger comes to mute it (getting in position to strike it) while the first finger then strikes the next string. That string then gets muted as your second finger strikes the higher string, etc etc. Half the motion.
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OK nevermind, obviously I misunderstood you. You're raking your fingers, playing i-i-m-m-i-i-m-m etc.
 
#26
Originally posted by Angus
Two people? Very interesting! It always seemed more normal, to me obviously, to get both strings with 1 finger, rake style. Hell of a lot less motion! Much easier to do at higher speeds than the other method, for me at least.
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the problem with this kind of thing, at least for me, is that it will have a tendancy to be sloppy. remember that notes have two sides to them - the "on" and the "off" - i try to turn off notes with the same finger that i turned them on, especially in a passage like this.

i use rakes for chords and arpeggios, but usually i try to use one finger per string for these kinds of things - i can get much cleaner and much faster than if i were doing rakes. fast don't matter if it's sloppy. ;)


oh, and mark, there are a few iron maiden songs with the same kind of bass passages - "to tame a land" off of piece of mind and "rhyme of the ancient mariner" off of powerslave both have the same kind of thing that you are talking about, very fast.
 
#27
I agree with the sloppy thing, John.
As I said before, with the "raking technique" you tend to have notes sustaining into each other, and it just begins to sound cluttered.

The weird thing about the song, is that he uses that technique, and jumps right into some really awkward (in the context of the song) parts.

I'll definetly check out the Iron Maiden songs, thanks for the suggestion. :)
 
#28
With proper practice, they don't sustain into each other. In something like this, I'd either alternate my ring finger in there (I always alternate r-m-i-r-m-i), so there are two fingers to stop the sustaining, or use the ring to mute the played string. In either case, they don't sustain into each other. Just practice, that's all.

BTW, C-Eye, his notes sustain into each other in the song. That's why it sounds a little muddy in the background. He's just plucking back and forth.

John, wouldn't your technique come naturally to you, considering you play more like a classical guitarist (if I remember correctly)? Not a bad thing by any means, just curious.
 
#29
Originally posted by Angus
John, wouldn't your technique come naturally to you, considering you play more like a classical guitarist (if I remember correctly)? Not a bad thing by any means, just curious.
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that's definitely true, angus, but i also use the raking technique that you are talking about often. in fact, i use both of them on the beginning of the instrumental in my sig at the same time.

the raking technique is also cool if used in a strumming motion, sortof like -POW- spreading your fingers outward. good for really fast stuff.
 
#30
Yep, I use the outward raking/strumming, both on bass and on guitar when I play classical (far too rarely). I can't do it clean enough, for my tastes, to really be able to apply it very musically yet, except when I'm fooling around with some Primus songs that use it.

...I need to practice!
 
#31
Originally posted by john turner

Oh, and mark, there are a few iron maiden songs with the same kind of bass passages - "to tame a land" off of piece of mind and "rhyme of the ancient mariner" off of powerslave both have the same kind of thing that you are talking about, very fast.
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Don't forget Number of the Beast (if you're talking about what I think it is you're talking about..) that song is a real pain to get right.. too quite the big of practice.... Hrhmm... and its not even really THAT hard.. :( :)
 
#33
I vote for Angus' method for adjacent strings - sometimes it's fitting for the notes to sustain into each other, sometimes not .. you can control it with proper muting using either method though; it's largely a case of which way sounds better, as you're playing it in a different place with both methods.

I would suggest that if you're wanting the notes to sustain into each other it sounds best IMHO to play an open string and the octave two strings removed (2nd fret)..

(EDIT) i'd add that ultimately it's best to be able to do both.
 
#34
I generally use Angus' technique when hitting double stops w/ two string right next to eachother. I never intended to start using that form, but ended up doing it naturally. But i still some times use the two finger technique...

But, when hitting notes where i have to skip strings, i pluck w/ either my index, middle, and some times thumb. I grabbed this one from messing around w/ finger plucking on guitar, where your thumb is required.

When useing either way, it sounds the same, its just that i prefer to use the "raking" technique, because gives your fingers less tired when doing them relativly fast, because as Angus has mentioned, its the same amount of notes in half the movement.

Edit: I just remembered a book that i was doing reading out of a couple of years ago (it was w/ my teacher, when i was first learing all the basics of proper technique) and it stated that in there you use your index and middle finger to "pluck" out double stops. So which is the "correct" way of doing it? Or, is it just like the concept of right hand thumb placement, where its mere prefference?
 

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