Double Bass Well That Was Sobering

[Tyler L]

I'll keep this as brief as I can with the setup. My wife and I are poor. Like, legitimately struggle to get by in an apartment on the "rough" side of town kind of poor. I made the foolish decision of learning double bass because it looked fun, not thinking my lower class upbringing could possibly get in the way. Started learning classical because I thought it would be a good compliment to my jazz BG playing. I got a beginner rent-to-own plywood that I thought would work.

Six years later, I'm in love with playing classical music. I practice everyday and have the aspiration of auditioning for a smaller orchestra in the future, if I keep practicing hard. I was planning on just using my crappy plywood because, you know, I thought if I were good enough, hopefully the hard work would shine through the crappy instrument and I could purchase a nicer one when I make more money.

Well, that perspective changed! This past week I was at the Bass Cellar to treat myself to some new bow hair and tried out this beautiful bass. It was nearly $13k, but man I fell in love. The sound I had been working so hard to develop and get on my $3k bass I was able to achieve with almost no effort at all and with a bow that I hated. So here I am now and I cannot even touch my bass because of the amount of effort I have to put into this instrument that some people can just buy.

So here's my question. Have you all ever had that kind of experience? How have you gotten over it? Is it less of a deal than I am making it? If it is a big deal, any of you find ways to get a nice bass without going into insane levels of debt?

Thanks in advance.

 

[meldrumandbass]

My understanding of basses in the classical world are that you need a hybrid at least. Maybe spend 3-5k. I had a similar experience with my Czech Strunahl plywood bass, except I wanted it to sound more like jazz. It sounded ok Arco but terrible for pizzicato. Turns out all I had to do was put Spirocores on , and it stood out as a jazz instrument. However, if you are playing in orchestra, the point is to blend in with your fellow bassists. This is why I think a hybrid and whatever strings classical bassist prefer is your answer; that solution is less than 13k.

 

[Don Hergert]

Speaking in general about instrument quality, often, if not most of the time, the cost of an instrument talks about how well it plays and how good it sounds. There are exceptions though. With that in mind I'd suggest shopping around at more than one shop, and also, checking private party used instruments in your area. You might fall in love again, at a lower price.

Good luck with this -- we all understand.

P.S. Worth mentioning, setup can make a huge difference in playability and sound on a double bass. Even possibly on the ply that you're renting-to-own.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

In 2017 I got to spend some hours playing Arnold Schnitzer’s Ergo bass at the ISB convention. It was the nicest bass I’ve ever played. It was also $38K. That is way beyond my means.

I am likely to finish my career on a hybrid bass I bought for about $6K in 2005. Life is still very good. I tell myself regularly that the main thing holding me back on my current bass is me. I watched McBride play a beautiful concert on the ply copy of that bass - I offered him the hybrid, but he said he was good with the ply. He sounded exactly like McBride. If he can sound like that on the lesser version of the same bass, then I figure I just need to roll up my sleeves and get busy getting better.

 

[lurk]

I don't know what you can afford, of course, but if you're going to play in an orchestra, a hybrid is kinda the minimum. It won't play like that carved bass you tried, but it's a big pop up from a ply. Check out the String Emporium. Their hybrid is a great value in my experience. The guy who runs the business is a bassist and as far as I can tell an honest person. Any bass you buy will likely hold or increase its value unless it gets seriously damaged, and you'll be able to trade up. Don't be conned by too good to be true cheap Chinese basses.

 

[Lee Moses]

Solid thoughts as always from @Chris Fitzgerald.

With regard to the O.P., you need to get that fling with the $13k bass out of your head for now. You can certainly play a plywood in a local orchestra. I've had section mates who played plys. It's not ideal, but it is doable. And with regard to "going into insane levels of debt"...based on experience, I would strongly caution against going into any kind of debt to buy a bass in your position. Debt only makes a poor man far poorer. Work with what you have for now, save up a little at a time, and when you have enough in the bank to upgrade, then upgrade. It sounds like you've been working hard at your craft...I imagine that can shine through a less than perfect instrument.

 

[sidewaysbass]

I spent the last 6-7 months bass shopping in an effort to upgrade from my Shen 200 Willow. I played ~25 basses in my price range. About halfway through the search I fell in love with a Golia, but it was going for double my budget. The sound was round, dark, and loud as can be... but alas I wasn't willing to take on the debt. I gave up looking for a while before the owner of a local bass shop called and said "I got a bass in on consignment that might be what you're looking for." So I take it home for a couple weeks to try it out and BOOM. It spoke to me in all the same ways as the Golia, but for less than half the price. It's a big beauty of a Hungarian (labeled Benedek Elemer, but made by Akoz Balazs). It'll make a great section bass one day (when I get my bow chops up) and is a joy to practice on.

There's no rush. You'll definitely find a bass that does it for you that you can stomach the price tag.

Also, I wonder if the strings that were on the Bass Cellar bass may have been responsible for most of the ease of getting the sound out. Were they different than your usual set up?

 

[longfinger]

Arco play on a plywood is different than it is on a carved top. A hybrid-bass (carved top, ply back and sides) will get you closer to that sound while being more affordable. Buying used will save you money. It is possible to sell a good ply for $2k and get a hybrid for $3k.

You wrote you have a "rent-to-own"; so could an option be to go to the store and ask for a "Step-up" bass with a carved top? When they get one in your price range, you return your ply and rent-to-own the hybrid for a few bucks more per month?

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Just keep playing what you have.

You can get into an chamber group or orchestra with your plywood bass. The other string players don’t care. They do care about your good attitude and the work you have done.

One day get a carved bass. But don’t let the bass you have now hold you back. A community orchestra will be happy to have a bassist with a good attitude. They won’t care about the bass you show up with.

 

[DrayMiles]

I've gone from being on welfare, to making government cheese sandwiches, to being homeless 5 times and sleeping in the doorway of churches.
I say this because...

Things are never easy. I also wanted a doublebass years ago and didn't have the money or skill. In my case, I prayed, and kept it in the back of my mind what I wanted. I really wanted to play the upright... Within 5 years of my hardships... I got lucky. I have 2 basses valued between $50,000 to $60,000. I spent less than 5k for both initially... (Although I spent 10K repairing one of them...)

What I'm trying to say is... Sometimes a positive blessing is right around the corner. Just keep on keeping on... And if you keep that goal in your mind's eye, you'll get it... It's happened to me with my electric basses too...

Don't be depressed, someone out in the world can't even afford what you have now. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if your next bass is worth $50k... I really mean that... This negative could be a positive.

Good Luck,

D.

 

[JayLaughlin]

What CaseyVancouver said. I've played in a community orchestra for 3 years using my Engelhardt ply. Personally, I find it easier to play arco on that thing than most of the other basses I've tried. Maybe it's the setup? <shrugs> But one thing is certain, being a player with a good attitude is key. I've learned so much from this experience. No one has ever complained about the tone. In fact, I've gotten many compliments. Which really is testimony that non-bassists don't exactly hear all the flaws we might hear ourselves in our tone on ply instruments.

 

[bassically_eli]

It sounds like you need a setup. When was the last time you had your bass in the shop?

I was fortunate to learn on some pretty nice school owned instruments in college. I dropped out of college for several years because I couldn't afford it, let alone a bass. I finally managed to get my hands on an Engelhard C1 ply, but it needed work. I eventually put some money into it, and it played much better than I had expected to, but still not fantastic. Then last year, after it started developing some fingerboard buzz, I took it in again. I never liked how it bowed or how it played in thumb position (the bridge had a bit more curvature than the fingerboard--a compromise made with it's first setup--so the action in thumb position was kind of wonky). They reshaped the fingerboard as well as bridge to a more bow friendly arch, which made the action on the entire bass much, much smoother, got rid of the wolf tone, and just made the whole thing speak better! I freaking love playing it now! I liked it before, but now bowing feels pretty effortless, and so does thumb position. It actually plays better than those old school instruments I learned on, which probably hadn't had a proper setup in years--years of abuse that is. In total, I think I've really only put around $900 into it, plus a couple hundred more for each set of strings. The Bass Violin Shop in Greensboro, NC is where I have all the work done these days, and I couldn't be more impressed.

I don't have time to play in any classical ensembles these days, but I do use the bow quite a lot, and I still practice some classical at home. I still want to get a nicer bass, or maybe a couple of nicer basses, but honestly, my ply is a workhorse, and I think it may still be my go to bass even when I do get something nicer.

Unfortunately, classical musicians can really be snobs about instruments. You may indeed be better off upgrading to a hybrid or entry level fully carved instrument. I played a $4000ish Shen SB200--a fully carved, willow-back bass--at The Bass Violin Shop a couple years ago, that was just great. It was all setup and ready to go. The hybrid models are even less.

 

[bassically_eli]

One more thing, regarding the bow. You can get a pretty damn good carbon fiber bow for $300 to $400, or even less if you can find one used. I found one on eBay last X-mas for $80.

 

[BobDeRosa]

You've gotten some awfully good advice here. It's easy to fall in love with a $13K bass -- almost any of us would be equally smitten -- but you definitely don't need all that. There's a big, wide world between your plywood and $13K. A Shen hybrid or carved will go for less half the price of the bass you fell in love with and will make you and the community orchestra very happy. Size your dreams to meet your budget.

 

[BrotherMister]

These things are always sobering and depressing but being honest very few people can walk in and just buy these things anyway. That is just something we tend to tell ourselves because we see it on sale. People who can buy them will usually have had to have sold their bass as well as saved for the new one as well.

Keep doing what you are doing. Whatever problems you face playing the bass now will reappear on an upgraded instrument anyway, so it is all down to us doing the work somewhere. If you can sound good on something that challenges you then you’ll sound good on anything!

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Don’t put the memory of the $13k bass out of your mind. Was it more the sound or the setup? How did it feel under your left hand and when your bow hit the strings? Maybe a different set of strings and better setup could help you take that plywood bass further.
Then? As mentioned before, a Shen Willow or similar might be a good option at a more affordable price and bridge the gap until you can afford something else.

 

[unbrokenchain]

What everyone said… a few other points too:
1. I’ve seen at least two fully carved basses every year go on Craigslist in this area for $1500, for at least 4 years now. Some folks need a quick sale, some folks don’t know what they have, some instruments need repairs that don’t yet hinder playing (like mine!)
2. $13k is a lot of money for anyone in our tax bracket. But it’s not impossible money, and I’d be willing to bet there are multiple ways to arrive at that number without doing anything illegal or compromising
3. That said, once you have that 13k instrument, then you will be co for table handling the $50k one with a C extension, and then once you have that… and so it goes with material things. I’m not saying don’t get it, but just to remember that there’s always always a “nicer” instrument out there somewhere. I’m of the opinion that a relationship with an instrument is about 15% build quality, 35% setup, and 51% how much time we spend with the instrument. Your math may vary…

 

[Who da Ville]

I agree with all the above comments, especially looking at set-up and strings i# you can't a##ord a hybrid. Also look at higher quality bows; it makes a real di##erence.

One story o# my recent experience: I had my cheap bow re-haired a #ew months ago, and my luthier kindly lent me a pretty nice bow (not top-o#-the line, but nicer than the one that was being re-haired). I immediately noticed that this bow produced a better tone and was more nimble than my cheap bow. I realized that in the long term, what I want is two steps up #rom the loaner bow; so while the loaner bow was within my budget, the two-steps-up bow is not.

When I received my re-haired bow, I #ound that with increased #ocus, I could get similar sounds out o# my existing bow; it was just not as easy. So, #or me, playing with a better bow #or a #ew weeks made me a better player with my old bow. Yes, there still are a lot o# sounds and e##ects you will never get with a ply bass, but now that you know that these sounds exist, you may still be able to work toward them with your existing bass.

P.S. You may have noticed that the # key on my keyboard doesn't work. So, whenever you see a #, please read it as a #. I can't a##ord a new keyboard, 'cause I'm saving up #or a new bow...

 

[unbrokenchain]

I agree with all the above comments, especially looking at set-up and strings i# you can't a##ord a hybrid. Also look at higher quality bows; it makes a real di##erence.

One story o# my recent experience: I had my cheap bow re-haired a #ew months ago, and my luthier kindly lent me a pretty nice bow (not top-o#-the line, but nicer than the one that was being re-haired). I immediately noticed that this bow produced a better tone and was more nimble than my cheap bow. I realized that in the long term, what I want is two steps up #rom the loaner bow; so while the loaner bow was within my budget, the two-steps-up bow is not.

When I received my re-haired bow, I #ound that with increased #ocus, I could get similar sounds out o# my existing bow; it was just not as easy. So, #or me, playing with a better bow #or a #ew weeks made me a better player with my old bow. Yes, there still are a lot o# sounds and e##ects you will never get with a ply bass, but now that you know that these sounds exist, you may still be able to work toward them with your existing bass.

P.S. You may have noticed that the # key on my keyboard doesn't work. So, whenever you see a #, please read it as a #. I can't a##ord a new keyboard, 'cause I'm saving up #or a new bow...

ABCDE#G I guess the F is always sharp?

Yeah whatever, I'm not a Dad but I can still make Dad jokes...

 

[Alexis Duntov]

I'll keep this as brief as I can with the setup. My wife and I are poor. Like, legitimately struggle to get by in an apartment on the "rough" side of town kind of poor. I made the foolish decision of learning double bass because it looked fun, not thinking my lower class upbringing could possibly get in the way. Started learning classical because I thought it would be a good compliment to my jazz BG playing. I got a beginner rent-to-own plywood that I thought would work.

Six years later, I'm in love with playing classical music. I practice everyday and have the aspiration of auditioning for a smaller orchestra in the future, if I keep practicing hard. I was planning on just using my crappy plywood because, you know, I thought if I were good enough, hopefully the hard work would shine through the crappy instrument and I could purchase a nicer one when I make more money.

Well, that perspective changed! This past week I was at the Bass Cellar to treat myself to some new bow hair and tried out this beautiful bass. It was nearly $13k, but man I fell in love. The sound I had been working so hard to develop and get on my $3k bass I was able to achieve with almost no effort at all and with a bow that I hated. So here I am now and I cannot even touch my bass because of the amount of effort I have to put into this instrument that some people can just buy.

So here's my question. Have you all ever had that kind of experience? How have you gotten over it? Is it less of a deal than I am making it? If it is a big deal, any of you find ways to get a nice bass without going into insane levels of debt?

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like you already have the choice instrument, and it's you, not your bass. If you are willing to put in the kind of time you have described and you enjoy playing classical repertoire with a bow, you should pat yourself on the back. I admire your aspiration to get into an orchestra. But more than that I admire your work ethic. And that's what will make you sound good on any instrument. The higher quality instruments will come, and you'll be so well-prepared because you've put in all this effort. I took my bass in to my luthier this week and played two basses while he worked on mine. Both sounded waaaaay better than mine, which is an entry-level carved German bass. Sure, I was a little lustful (except both were significantly heavier than mine), but I got home and remembered that most of our sound comes from us, especially when it comes to arco. If you can make your plywood sing, you'll be in great shape when you finally get your hands on a better bass. In the meantime, take pride in your musicianship and dedication.