I'm just telling you the story as I'm reading it since you don't seem to see the wood in the trees that I see.
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Well, we did it!! (pay to play content)
- Thread starter gustobassman
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Whatever it is, it's likely that its not the HOB. Instead it is probably a talent agency of some sort.
Race to the bottom - weeee - we're already there
I am glad to see strong pushback but the system's been rigged (as have most permutations of our rancid modern capitalist system) - exploitation is the name of the game - suckers born every minute
Being ancient I remember a thriving live music scene all across this country but that died a couple decades back - gigs everywhere (even if the pay was crap it was pay) where the clubs competed by assuring the local patrons that they would vet the acts & provide a quality product from week to week or night to night
When did it become the responsibility of the band to do ALL the promotion & drag 'their' crowd to each & every gig??? This is very convenient (& lazy) for the venue owners - put the whole P&L statement on the itinerant employees and complain when business is inconsistent - wow what a business model - take the profits and pass on the losses - excellent!!
You can't build a venue based on each band selling their own tickets & dragging a crowd repeatedly - you build a venue as a destination where locals can expect to see interesting & exciting new things - but that takes effort by management
I am glad to see strong pushback but the system's been rigged (as have most permutations of our rancid modern capitalist system) - exploitation is the name of the game - suckers born every minute
Being ancient I remember a thriving live music scene all across this country but that died a couple decades back - gigs everywhere (even if the pay was crap it was pay) where the clubs competed by assuring the local patrons that they would vet the acts & provide a quality product from week to week or night to night
When did it become the responsibility of the band to do ALL the promotion & drag 'their' crowd to each & every gig??? This is very convenient (& lazy) for the venue owners - put the whole P&L statement on the itinerant employees and complain when business is inconsistent - wow what a business model - take the profits and pass on the losses - excellent!!
You can't build a venue based on each band selling their own tickets & dragging a crowd repeatedly - you build a venue as a destination where locals can expect to see interesting & exciting new things - but that takes effort by management
Well then HOB business model is based on exploiting YOU
Who are these 'middlemen' finding the acts? Who pays them? I'm sure they've got an angle.
We hated our 'agents' back in the day but at least they got commissions based on the fees they got for the band - they had incentive to get more $$ & represent consistently good bands
How can you possibly grow your 'following' when everything's a one-off localized event? It's more like 'maintaining' an increasingly small following who will grow tired of chasing you around to these obviously contrived (staged) gigs
It's sad that there are so many opportunities to prey on the hopes & dreams of well intentioned artists
Who are these 'middlemen' finding the acts? Who pays them? I'm sure they've got an angle.
We hated our 'agents' back in the day but at least they got commissions based on the fees they got for the band - they had incentive to get more $$ & represent consistently good bands
How can you possibly grow your 'following' when everything's a one-off localized event? It's more like 'maintaining' an increasingly small following who will grow tired of chasing you around to these obviously contrived (staged) gigs
It's sad that there are so many opportunities to prey on the hopes & dreams of well intentioned artists
My 2 cents...
Selling tickets is great. I think a lot of creative types don't value the business aspect of music.
Being able to sell 100 tickets after a 8 year hiatus is great.
$1500 for promotion isn't bad. Look at the cost of a full page color ad in your local paper or a industry magazine.
Plus you'll have reached a more receptive group of people than you might have through print advertising.
so all that is good.
The bad is playing a gig and not getting paid anything.
The venue should give you a cut of tickets sold, or a flat fee for performing, or something.
I don't think I saw in any of the threads that you guys got any compensation for playing. correct me if I am wrong.
Selling tickets is great. I think a lot of creative types don't value the business aspect of music.
Being able to sell 100 tickets after a 8 year hiatus is great.
$1500 for promotion isn't bad. Look at the cost of a full page color ad in your local paper or a industry magazine.
Plus you'll have reached a more receptive group of people than you might have through print advertising.
so all that is good.
The bad is playing a gig and not getting paid anything.
The venue should give you a cut of tickets sold, or a flat fee for performing, or something.
I don't think I saw in any of the threads that you guys got any compensation for playing. correct me if I am wrong.
It never ceases to amaze me how many bar owners think that their strip mall joint with with ten regulars sitting around a horseshoe bar is going to suddenly become a hotspot because every band they bring in will automatically drag it's heavy drinking, slavish acolytes to every gig they play. Of course it'll happen on occasion but to expect it every time is absurd. Unless that is you're some big name, and in that case you'd never consider playing in a dump like I just mentioned.
Those "people commenting in a condescending tone" (also known as "professional musicians" in your context) will still be playing music in ten years, many still professionally, while the OP will likely be cursing his historically naive decision-making, with respect to a musical life he allowed to be swallowed up by disillusion catalysed by unrealistic expectations.
We will have a merch booth. We keep all profits from that.
Like i have posted a few times already, i am 1 of 4 in a majority rules situation. I expressed i didnt want to sell tickets and was the lone "no" vote. So, the tickets sold quickly, the show will be packed and we barely lifted a finger to sell the tickets. If people didnt honestly want to see the show, how come 100 people bought tickets at $15 a pop?
You guys are getting way to wound up over this. Obviously we knew what the "scam" as you guys are calling it was before we said yes. We weighed the options and FOR OUR SITUATION this seemed like a great exposure opportunity. We havent spent a dime ourselves.
Most lower-level touring bands i know use the guarantee to cover costs like gas, food, lodging... money is made at the merch booth. We're approaching this like that. We dont have to cover those costs so we're gonna push merch. You may not do it that way however. I get that..
As long as there are musicians willing to play for free or pay to play, there will be venues willing to take advantage of them.
I would imagine that the OP could have made a deal with any club in the area to let them play if they sold 100 tickets for $15 each. He probably could have made a deal to keep a chunk of that too.
Unfortunately play for free and pay to play is not a victimless crime. It affects those of us who have spent decades honing our craft and have the audacity to think that we should actually get paid for our efforts.
if the OP sold 101 tickets, do they get to keep 100% of the proceeds for every ticket over 100? are you only allowed to sell just enough tix to buy in to the show?
if you don't have merch, how would you make any money? (not that money is anything/everything, just sayin'.....)
if you don't have merch, how would you make any money? (not that money is anything/everything, just sayin'.....)
I never once said that we took this gig as our "big break" or anything. The fact that we hadnt had a show in 8 years and we're given this chance to be on a stacked bill on a scld out HOB show was something we thought maybe we should take advantage of. Some of you obviously disagree with our decision.
And really, the amount of "work" we did to sell the tickets wasnt much other than a couple facebook posts and some text messages You guys are making it sound like i held my friends kid hostage and forced him to to buy a ticket or else... geez..
And really, the amount of "work" we did to sell the tickets wasnt much other than a couple facebook posts and some text messages You guys are making it sound like i held my friends kid hostage and forced him to to buy a ticket or else... geez..
I can almost guess the age of the posters here by their acceptance of a system that developed over the last 20 yrs or so - I first remember hearing about PFP many yrs ago in LA but that initially WAS a means of getting marketable exposure in a crowded high-profile location
the fact that PFP is accepted means it's entrenched - not going anywhere
when I was 17 I joined the AFofM - do ANY of you know what that is???
let's put it this way, once a club owner tried to stiff us after a week long gig in Cleveland OH - not smart on his part - the AFL-CIO backed us up and the Teamsters refused to deliver beer to said venue - needless to say, we got paid quickly
the fact that PFP is accepted means it's entrenched - not going anywhere
when I was 17 I joined the AFofM - do ANY of you know what that is???
let's put it this way, once a club owner tried to stiff us after a week long gig in Cleveland OH - not smart on his part - the AFL-CIO backed us up and the Teamsters refused to deliver beer to said venue - needless to say, we got paid quickly
Sir, i for one do get paid when i play . This is the first p2p ive done in 15 years. I am adamantly against it. I am part of a group and was the lone no vote. We will nOt be doing anymore p2p in the forseeable future, we have discussed it and made that decision too. This is a oneoff deal and we know who is making the money.
As sgt hulka said......lighten up francis
If we take the same business model they use for bands and apply it to the servers and bartenders, how long do you think HOB would be in business ?
someone made a good point, what if you sold the first 100 tickets and then asked for another hundred and lets say you sold 75 more, does the band get to keep the profit of surpassing the minimum ? $1500 seems pretty steep to rent a stage for an hour or so, I hope it turns out well for you and makes it worth the effort
someone made a good point, what if you sold the first 100 tickets and then asked for another hundred and lets say you sold 75 more, does the band get to keep the profit of surpassing the minimum ? $1500 seems pretty steep to rent a stage for an hour or so, I hope it turns out well for you and makes it worth the effort
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