Went into Guitar Center, Wow

[tbz]

My point was not that they decided to change the business model to be more like other retail stores, but that because of the behavior of buyers, it just does not make sense to stock more expensive instruments in retail music stores.

You completely missed or misread my point then.

My statement is that they grew without even establishing if their growth could be supported by reality. We're now seeing the downside of that unchecked growth.

If 50% of the country was willing to eventually buy an average of, say, 1.5 guitars a piece, that's still a finite number of guitars to sell. It's a lot of guitars, but it is a FINITE number, period. Guitars are durable, unless they are abnormally abused even a 40 or 50 year old instrument just needs a setup, new strings, and maybe new frets and electronics, but that's 1/4 of the new purchase price and would not facilitate a new purchase.

That is a drastic contrast to, say, a t shirt. T shirts wear down, they are not durable. After a certain number of washes they develop holes, and you're off to buy a new shirt at Walmart.

A sane human being or organization would stop trying to expand at a point, as a result.

They haven't. They're hemorrhaging money and are still trying to expand into secondary and tertiary markets because.....uh...reasons?

TL;DR, they're pulling a Walmart. Despite the fact that a huge portion of Walmart's revenue comes from items like groceries, or paper goods, or even clothing, that has a very finite lifespan and need to be repurchased on a regular interval. Even with that as their revenue source, Walmart isn't doing great right now.

So again, they expanded to fast, too far.

Buying out their competition didn't really help here as having 100% of a finite market means all of your lines of business fail when the market hits saturation. It's like they took the Walmart playbook and tried to apply it to music instruments. It reeks of delusional management.

 

[gguillo]

I think it's that most GC's cater to the casual musician & they stock what most people in the area purchase. They know the market & stock up on what they can sell. There's not too many pro gear guys shopping at our local GC. Example: I was in Guitar Center in Little Rock, AR last week picking up cymbal sleeves for my drummer, and there was this guy just killing it on a Fender Jazz 5. He was slappin' & runnin' all over the place. You could tell he has been playing for many years… I went over to listen to him for a moment, after conversing with him, I asked him if he was looking at buying a Fender bass, he said "no, I've got a Ken Smith at home, I'm just over here killing time while my wife is across the parking lot at Bed, Bath, & Beyond." I think most pro musicians are going to buy high end instruments either used from a fellow musician (or forum like TB), a specialty shop, or directly from the maker. That's the case for my 4 basses.

Having said all the above, I love my GC here in town. When it comes to upkeep, input fixing, pot cleaning, overall maintenance, etc. The guy at GC does a fantastic job of setting up my basses! For me, GC is a great place to get accessories. All GC's I've been to have a great selection of cables, cases, bags, & strings. I know my drummer always goes in for sticks. Heck, the GC in downtown Dallas, TX has a killer selection of instruments! Supply & Demand. It all depends on city size & what they can sell to the overall population.

I believe it's more beneficial for our local GC to move 20+ $599 MIJ Fender Strats in a month than it is to keep that $4000 Warwick Thumb 5 NT hanging on the wall for a year.

 

[buldog5151bass]

If it were not for the internet, there would still be more expensive instruments on store shelves. GC is still selling plenty of them, but on line. If I owned a store, I would be very careful with my expensive instruments, and I would not have them out on the shelves, for that very reason - I am not there to just help tire-kickers. If I believed someone was truly interested in buying one, I would let them try it.

 

[tbz]

If it were not for the internet, there would still be more expensive instruments on store shelves. GC is still selling plenty of them, but on line. If I owned a store, I would be very careful with my expensive instruments, and I would not have them out on the shelves, for that very reason - I am not there to just help tire-kickers. If I believed someone was truly interested in buying one, I would let them try it.

I've seen several USA Spectors hit the market that *were* owned by GC, or a subsidiary, but were then liquidated to a third party reseller after not selling from GC. I track that brand pretty closely, but know for a fact they were purchased in massive overstock lots that were sold off by GC at a big loss at the end of last year.

So, again, I'll politely have to disagree.

 

[Kim Jong Funk]

I've lived in NJ since I was 3 (I'm 45 now) and I've been playing bass since I was 12. I JUST discovered this place a couple weeks ago. We wheeled and dealed on a trade for a couple things in the store. It was like a little (dusty) piece of heaven. An adventure of "wait ... You have that?" Pretty awesome. The owner was such a great guy. Sadly, when he is gone, he seems to be the last of a dying breed of guitar stores.

My favorite local shop just closed their doors. It's hard to make a business case for being a mom and pop music store with decent stock (or even a guitar center for that matter) unless you are in a place that can stock and sell good gear. Sam Ash in 34th in NYC is the only place to find "good" fenders in the flesh.

How is the pricing, and was there a decent used stock? Their site omits the prices, and I've heard a few negative things about the treatment of potential customers there. It's a drive for me, and I have yet to make the trek up there (I prefer used basses for the depreciation factor).

 

[Fletz]

How is the pricing, and was there a decent used stock? Their site omits the prices, and I've heard a few negative things about the treatment of potential customers there. It's a drive for me, and I have yet to make the trek up there (I prefer used basses for the depreciation factor).

Prices are reasonable but not cheap. I communicate with him before I went in. I met him at a guitar show and he knew what I was coming in for and he knew what I was selling. He seemed very chill but I could see where he could be short.

 

[MovingPitchers]

Chicago Music Exchange received a lot of good reviews from those who went there and bought stuff from there. Granted, as its name states, it's only located in Chicago (if I'm correct) but the customer service there is apparently excellent.

 

[MovingPitchers]

If it weren't for Craigslist and TB, most of my gear probably would be all new and stuff instead of used.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I've seen several USA Spectors hit the market that *were* owned by GC, or a subsidiary, but were then liquidated to a third party reseller after not selling from GC. I track that brand pretty closely, but know for a fact they were purchased in massive overstock lots that were sold off by GC at a big loss at the end of last year.

So, again, I'll politely have to disagree.

And that has been going on for years. Authorized sellers of Fenders were known to sell guitars through other stores to help the stores meet their quotas.

Expensive instruments are still being sold - mostly on line.

 

[Mike_1978]

I must saying the neck joints were outstanding and very tight.

How important is the neck joint fit? My '78 P has a gap you could drive a Buick through.

 

[tbz]

And that has been going on for years. Authorized sellers of Fenders were known to sell guitars through other stores to help the stores meet their quotas.

Expensive instruments are still being sold - mostly on line.

No, in that case they had several hundred high end instruments and pieces of pro audio gear that did not sell.

They liquidated those items at pennies on the dollar to a bunch of guys that sold it on eBay.

They are not selling as well these days as they did 20 years ago. Saturation + lack of interest = falling sales.

 

[buldog5151bass]

No, in that case they had several hundred high end instruments and pieces of pro audio gear that did not sell.

They liquidated those items at pennies on the dollar to a bunch of guys that sold it on eBay.

They are not selling as well these days as they did 20 years ago. Saturation + lack of interest = falling sales.

I agree that overall sales on many traditional instruments are down.

 

[whatizitman]

I agree test driving may have hurt business but they could have helped it if they would offer a discount for ordering it online through them. The question is why are people test driving at GC and ordering through Musicfriend, Sweetwater etc when GC matches prices? Could it be saving in sales tax? If so advertise a 10% discount for online purchases and continue to match prices. Also provide quick shipping i.e. 2 day business at no cost. When I ordered my Pbass from Sweetwater I got free shipping, lower cost, great customer service and I was playing it in 2 days. I was emailed pictures of the bass before it even arrived and emails concerning shipping status. I also received a follow up email to check and see if I like my purchase. The bass had a warranty that if I didn't like anything about it I could ship it back at their cost. That's customer service. You don't get that at GC. GC is like shopping at WalMart. Over the years I have spent a ton of money at GC because they are close however, now that their selection isn't that great I go to where I get the best service for the price.

GC and MF are sister companies. As much as I hate to admit it, taxes tend to be deciding factor for me. But I also do very few big purchases, and certainly no high end gear. OTOH, I don't buy beginner packages, either. And for these reasons I rarely need any in-person customer service. Plus, I'm too far away from a GC to make it worth doing an in-store return. So, the vast majority of my equipment buying is through MF.

Internet tire kicking is NOT what is killing off instrument retailers. We know this, because internet sales have actually helped other retail sectors, despite all predictions contrary. What is killing them is their absolute unwillingness to try to adapt.

I've never liked the service at any GC I've been to. But I realize I may never have fit the demographic they wanted. I'm not a tire kicker or a wanker. But I am the type that wants to try something out without someone trying to sell me something who can't answer a real question to save their life. OTOH, I only infrequently make an instrument or amp purchase. At least not on a whim. So I tend to get ignored. Suffice to say, my GC experiences have never been good, period.

I would wonder if there is enough in my demographic for GC, as well as any brick and mortar store, big box or otherwise, to be concerned about.

What do I want in a store? Maybe GC is on to something. I like how some local mom/pop shop cater to local musicians, but not equipment-wise. The reality is that we can go on line to buy the majority of consumer level instruments and gear, and do basic setups. What not everyone has is community. In addition to rentals and lessons, have practice and studio space. Give clinics, host open mics, invite local and traveling talent. Have a room for guitarhero - there, I said it. Hell, have a freaking in-store starbucks. Make a space truly musician friendly. And not just for pros, but beginners and their parents.

What's driving the DIY/maker electronics world? Having space, tools, and people to help create. ALL of that stuff can be bought through amazon. But if a local radioshack rep is on hand to answer questions and remind people they can buy parts NOW at the local store instead of waiting for UPS, you better bet folks who need just need a cap, resistor, or connector will pick it up locally, IF THEY KNOW IT'S AVAILABLE.

BTW, Radioshack doesn't do this. Which is why they are also going the way of all things that suck.

 

[tbz]

I agree that overall sales on many traditional instruments are down.

Which is why their continued desire to grow is insanity.

Granted they're in debt up to their eyeballs so pretending they can grow is one of their only options.

TBH that *could* be why they're making such bad decisions right now. Corporate realizes this is just a death march.

 

[LowStringNinja]

The ones I go to in Baltimore are big on Ibanez, and anything they have is pretty much in the 500-650 USD range..other than a couple 2000 USD Rickenbackers. I played one of the new 1200 dollar Fender jazz basses they had, and that thing was total junk..I bought my amps from them, tho..and I got an Ibanez 405qm coming thru them from Texas i found on their website for 320 bucks. One thing they are good for is that you can browse all the used stuff they have throughout the country and get it shipped to your local guitar center.

 

[lixisoft]

One thing they are good for is that you can browse all the used stuff they have throughout the country and get it shipped to your local guitar center.

That's about all I use GC for now is their online used gear site. I have actually made several good scores from them..........mainly because they did not know what they had, but that's another story

 

[Jay2U]

our local store has a dozen great basses and two dozen average ones. the worst part is their lack of string sets.

Exactly! On this side of the Atlantic it's the same. Total lack of strings sets, let alone singles.

 

[LowStringNinja]

they did not know what they had

Definitely! There's certainly a trend that they shoot for 80-85% new cost on 'excellent condition', but I've noticed items in certain areas where either a lot of trade happens or where an item may be unusual where they obviously mistook a brand's product for a lesser line of the product..like a premium guitar priced as it's standard line counterpart

 

[Mike_1978]

Definitely! There's certainly a trend that they shoot for 80-85% new cost on 'excellent condition', but I've noticed items in certain areas where either a lot of trade happens or where an item may be unusual where they obviously mistook a brand's product for a lesser line of the product..like a premium guitar priced as it's standard line counterpart

A few months ago in the Boston store I saw an Orange Terror 1000 labeled (and priced) as a Terror 500. That's 500 free watts!

 

[Skokiaan]

Jay also has a more boutique inventory, I bought my first 2 stingray 5's from him. They use to take your picture with the new bass you bought

I think he stopped taking photos of every instrument purchase when you could no longer easily get Polaroid film. He used to tape the most recent sales on a display case. I think the last batch of Polaroid photos may still be hanging, but are hidden behind a stack of amps. A shot of me and my newly purchased 1969 Gibson EB-1 (I paid $899) should still be hanging there. That was 2000 or 2001, so it's been a while since he's done the photos. I'm sure he still has all of them in several unlabeled boxes somewhere.