Wet/Dry or Wet/Dry/Wet issues to be aware of?

[nucklebone]

I'm exploring my options regarding wet/dry vs. wet/dry/wet setups. I'm not yet convince either way, but here's a few scenarios that I'm looking at. I'm wondering if anyone has any input on this. Particularly if what I'm proposing has any unforseen pros or cons. I have a few different Ibanez basses with active electronics and my current amp is an Ampeg BA-210 with a line level effects loop. I'm planning on adding 1 or 2 (depending on the w/d vs. w/d/w decision) Fender Rumbles. This is my line of thinking at the moment.

Wet/Dry
Bass (->) A/B/Y switcher (->) A-[Ampeg with distortion,fuzz] / B-[Fender with stereo chorus, stereo delay]

For the switcher I'm considering the ART Cool Switch Pro with Isolation. Also, I realize I'm not going to get stereo with this setup, I added that to clarify they are stereo effects.

Wet/Dry/Wet
Bass (->) Distortion/Fuzz (->) Front of Ampeg (->) Effects send to stereo chorus and delay (->) Left channel to one Rumble, Right channel to second Rumble.

Because the Ampeg has a line level send, I'm thinking about placing a Morley Line Level Shifter in front of the effects pedals (The chorus clearly states it accepts instrument level only).

Obviously the w/d setup will completely separate the dry effects from the wet effects, and the w/d/w setup will forego that separation in order to acheive stereo effects. But beyond maybe needing a buffer or two for the wet/dry setup after the switcher, does anyone see any glaring issues I'm probably unaware of in either scenario?

 

[bassbrad]

I have every sort of setup over the years as well as helped to design bass rigs some used by professional players on tours and am also a sound engineer for live and studio. Here are my experiences in a nutshell for any gigging bass player.

TLDR Bass will almost always be 1 channel just for the sake of simplicity and sanity.

Stereo effects live are only functional in the "sweet spot", outside of that sweet spot the effect is essentially null for anyone else or the audience and are an absolute nightmare for any sound tech. This is true for any signal, keyboard or guitar, but squared or cubed for bass. Further that most PA systems are in essence 2 channel MONO with little or no stereo imaging for a number of reasons. A true stereo live PA system is challenging and requires very sophisticated processing even in today's technical availability. Bass will almost always be 1 channel just for the sake of simplicity.

Wet/Dry is much more manageable and offers possibilities but doubles or triples the amount of gear needed as well as potential for problems. If you are running 2 amps you do get a pseudo stereo effect but again it is limited to the sweet spot. Chris Squire for example ran a multi amp set up but again with very sophisticated and professionally assisted set up, not without it's issues. Again you are relying on a sound tech to deal with multiple signals, while they are also dealing with an entire band to mix, not a great idea.

For these reasons I do all my signal splitting and mixing on board using a Boss LS2 send one signal to my amp, stage monitor and FOH. On my backup board I use a One Control Mosquito Blender on my guitar board a Rocktron Tru-Loop. This gives me the most consistency and is as trouble free as possible. If you want multiple loops the something like an EHX Tri Parallel mixer or Switchblade Pro might work for you better. Using a splitter/mixer avoids phasing and other possible troubles.

ABY boxes always seem like a viable option but in practice they are generally more trouble than they are worth ~ at best. I would avoid and step up and down transformers like the Morley unless that is your only option.

I recently watched a player's video that had the most insane number of outputs going to the PA for the sound person to sort out [duh]. I would bet a beer that usually it is just one signal going to the mains and the others were redundant.

Do a small handful of players have stereo or complex rigs live, yes but they have roadies and multiple professional sound techs - not what you are likely to find at any club.

TLDR Bass will almost always be 1 channel just for the sake of simplicity and sanity
Plan and design with that in mind.

In the studio stereo effects are best left to the mix unless that is part of the sound design, but the rest of the track will have to be recorded with that in mind. If you are lucky you might get 2 channels in a recording, if you are lucky and footing the bill.

 

[nucklebone]

Wow, I appreciate your response. You've given me some good perspective. Practicality is certainly something to consider.

 

[nucklebone]

If you want multiple loops the something like an EHX Tri Parallel mixer or Switchblade Pro might work for you better. Using a splitter/mixer avoids phasing and other possible troubles.

As attractive as a w/d/w setup sounds, your point is well taken, it loses a lot of practical application once you take your rig out the door. I did a little research on the EHX Tri and it looks like this makes the most sense for my particular need. At a minimum, with a single amp setup, I can clean up my sound by running effects in parallel. That alone goes a long way to acheive what I want. And if want, I can use it to scale up to a w/d system when and where it's an option. Thanks again!

 

[never-enough]

I have every sort of setup over the years as well as helped to design bass rigs some used by professional players on tours and am also a sound engineer for live and studio. Here are my experiences in a nutshell for any gigging bass player.

TLDR Bass will almost always be 1 channel just for the sake of simplicity and sanity.

Stereo effects live are only functional in the "sweet spot", outside of that sweet spot the effect is essentially null for anyone else or the audience and are an absolute nightmare for any sound tech. This is true for any signal, keyboard or guitar, but squared or cubed for bass. Further that most PA systems are in essence 2 channel MONO with little or no stereo imaging for a number of reasons. A true stereo live PA system is challenging and requires very sophisticated processing even in today's technical availability. Bass will almost always be 1 channel just for the sake of simplicity.

Wet/Dry is much more manageable and offers possibilities but doubles or triples the amount of gear needed as well as potential for problems. If you are running 2 amps you do get a pseudo stereo effect but again it is limited to the sweet spot. Chris Squire for example ran a multi amp set up but again with very sophisticated and professionally assisted set up, not without it's issues. Again you are relying on a sound tech to deal with multiple signals, while they are also dealing with an entire band to mix, not a great idea.

For these reasons I do all my signal splitting and mixing on board using a Boss LS2 send one signal to my amp, stage monitor and FOH. On my backup board I use a One Control Mosquito Blender on my guitar board a Rocktron Tru-Loop. This gives me the most consistency and is as trouble free as possible. If you want multiple loops the something like an EHX Tri Parallel mixer or Switchblade Pro might work for you better. Using a splitter/mixer avoids phasing and other possible troubles.

ABY boxes always seem like a viable option but in practice they are generally more trouble than they are worth ~ at best. I would avoid and step up and down transformers like the Morley unless that is your only option.

I recently watched a player's video that had the most insane number of outputs going to the PA for the sound person to sort out [duh]. I would bet a beer that usually it is just one signal going to the mains and the others were redundant.

Do a small handful of players have stereo or complex rigs live, yes but they have roadies and multiple professional sound techs - not what you are likely to find at any club.

TLDR Bass will almost always be 1 channel just for the sake of simplicity and sanity
Plan and design with that in mind.

In the studio stereo effects are best left to the mix unless that is part of the sound design, but the rest of the track will have to be recorded with that in mind. If you are lucky you might get 2 channels in a recording, if you are lucky and footing the bill.

this is great advice

if you are building a rig for jamming in your basement build whatever you want.
If you are gigging and don’t have your own sound guy it’s best to keep things simple:
The house will be expecting one line from the bass player.
Not two and definitely not three.

also the hazards of phase issues should not be overlooked, it’s easy to end up with a smaller sound when running multiple signals.