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We've lost the old school sound.

#21
pcake said:
you can, however, still buy vintage gear.

looking at it from the other direction, you also couldn't get some of today's clean and detailed tones in the 1970s.
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This.

There is PLENTY of that old stuff still out there, and in perfect working order, or just begging to be restored to perfect working order.

Even the new Ampeg, Orange, Marshall and lots of other manufacturer's stuff can cop those old sounds quite well.

I heard the music back then, recorded and live, and I play both new and old gear, and you can get exactly what you want with the right bass, string, amp, cab and skill set combination.

My opinion, there as nothing as satisfying as bringing great old vintage gear back to its original glory. Do that and you will find that tone you seek.
 
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#22
My Eden Metro on the tube channel gets 'close enough' to old school thru an Acoustic 8x10 (modded/reinforced cabinet).

My GK800RB thru my TL606 w EV15L is more a modern sound in my head, just for comparison.

The old boards in the 60's to late 70's were often magical...that's where much of the great tone lies.

Heck, Tommy Shannon played his basses thru a Peavey amp setup when I saw SRV in the mid 80's....it was a distinct sound.

The key is a nice warm sounding bass PASSIVE bass imo thru the good analog and/or tube gear......not to say some of the recent digital stuff can't get close.....much of it is very good.

Good analog and tube gear is the basis along with a passive bass.
 
#23
To really get "that" sound it really takes "that" gear, it just doesn't take as much of it. Now I know full well the bass evolution/revolution attack dogs have just been unleashed with that statement (like I care) but it's true. I play a lot of music from the era you speak of, in venues from blues juke joints, to places that have the full FOH with soundman setup. I have had the evolution gear, high power micro heads that weigh about 6lbs and the new school full blown 3 way crossover cabs. Could not get the organic sound I needed, so I went retro, sourced vintage gear, a Sunn 200s full rig, 70 glorious watts driving the 2x15 Altec equipped matching cab it easily fills most venues I play and if I need to use it louder, we just mic it or run a DI that is fed with whole pre/output tube/transformer signal again glorious! I also run ACC Acoustic heads, my fave is the old 150b/140 series, 70 glorious solid state watts that are every bit as loud as the all tube Sunn (wait how can that be), I use old 1x15 reflex horn cabs with these, sporting vintage speakers, EVMs and PV BW 1501s and I'll bet the cabs are too small by modern standards (and I don't care) the sound is vintage great! Do the amps distort, yep when pushed, in that wonderful old school kinda way, muddy and boomy, not at all.

Basically I'm using the right tool for the job at hand, and sold the modern gear, is it for everyone NO, your mileage may vary, but it works for me.
 
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#25
wolfkeller said:
I agree, far as clean and hi-fi. Listening to ISO tracks, most of those guys were distorted. Never really thought about cabs. I don't like fuzz. I was excited over the B3k but it was gone soon as I got it. I prefer a gk800rb as it gets rough and grindy but no fuzz
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They were distorted because they had to be - those old amps couldn't produce clean sound at the volumes at which they played. So all this misplaced nostalgia is just the result of amps that weren't up to the task.
 
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#26
Munjibunga said:
They were distorted because they had to be - those old amps couldn't produce clean sound at the volumes at which they played. So all this misplaced nostalgia is just the result of amps that weren't up to the task.
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It's not nostalgia, it's desire for that tone. It doesn't matter about that stuff, why can't those tones be copied now? That's my entire point?
 
#27
I think the albums that I played back in the 70's sounded great, but was mostly studio tricks and techniques that were used. The shows, which I didn't really get to see much of, were likely not as defined and full as they are today. On the other hand, today's studio recordings have lost something, over compression or something, but live shows are fantastic - I saw a show at the gorge this past summer and it was tone nirvana, clear, full even,,,,amazing. I am of the mindset that I would rather hear Zepp or other rock giants from the past play live through modern equipment. I think for the most part we have evolved in a positive direction though not everything is awesome.
 
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#28
wolfkeller said:
It's not nostalgia, it's desire for that tone. It doesn't matter about that stuff, why can't those tones be copied now? That's my entire point?
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They're certainly can be copied, but manufactures didn't desire to. To put what Munjibunga was saying into context,

Bands didn't necessarily want the tone they got, it's what they had to settle with. Advancements in technology gave many of these musicians amps with tone and volume closer associated to what they did want. That meant cleaner tone at higher volume.

The availability of obsolete parts is one of the reasons you can't buy an exact replicas of amps and certain tones. The vintage gear segment is where it's at for those requirements.
 
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#30
There's plenty of artists and bands around using the good old sound, even some rather acclaimed and successful ones, you just won't find many of them in the main stream music business or any of them on the Top 10 any more.

This guy for example:



And yes, tube amps are expensive compared to solid state or class D amps, but they are not totally out of reach, and if you are lucky you will find one used for a steal.

Like I got my Ampeg B-15S for what equals 200$ when I bought it in the late 90's (sold it about 10 years after, but regret it much even though I earned on it).

And actually the new 20 and 50W Ampeg clones PF-20T and PF-50T of the B-15's are not that expensive considering what you actually get.

There a line out from the power amp section that gets you the full tube sound so you could just by the PF-20T and run it into a solid state power amp with more watts.
 
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#31
You know I actually am able to get those tones...I am running Line6 HD 750 Lowdown with the controller pedal and I get some tones that are REALLY close to the old school sound. Just an FYI
 
#33
I agree that to some extent, "that sound" is due to the gear of that day and age - basses, amps and recording studios. Save "hands" for another thread.

I believe we can still achieve many "vintage tones" today, but find it interesting (ironic?) that we're often digitally attempting to duplicate analog sounds that were due to the LIMITATIONS of the equipment of that era.

Also, maybe it's not intentional nostalgia, but do we really remember things the way they were? The bass or amp that I wished I could get my hands on in 1974 was probably a far cry from what has come out since then. So, maybe I wouldn't be happy with it today. Annd MAYBE i can never get the JPJ sound in MY gear. You can't go home again, right?

On a somewhat related note, I have a few favorite classic bass tones which are all different from each other, and none of them are what I sound like or try to sound like. Again - not talking about "The Hands" (ugh), but I feel certain players' tones were exactly right for THEM and their music. Can you imagine any different sound for Close to The Edge, Easy Livin' or Crossroads?
 
#34
Look at the guys who were playing back then. What are they playing today? Last time I looked JPJ was using SWR and had been for years.

Many will still be wheeling out the hire companies SVTs in the stadiums and arenas but when they get away from that a lot of them will be using modern gear. Still getting their sound but without the boom, mud and fuzz of yesteryear.

I sound far better now than I did in the 60's and 70's. IMO so do most of the "old school" guys.
 
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#35
Albiechaser said:
I get a tear in my eye reading some comments on this thread, i was at this show in 1970, been to about 20 mountain shows back in those days, hearing felix play his bass made me pick one up, never could get that tone these boys got, my ears still ring from these shows, lol any idea what felixs setup was/
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I saw them six or eight times back then too. Felix used a wall of Sunn 2000S (I think) amps and a Gibson EB-1 violin bass. And cranked them LOUD.
 
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#37
I can't say anything about the" good old days" as I was born in '73. I really didn't know about all the limitations on gear. I do know I've heard countless bass lines from the 60s on that were clean or relatively clean. I mean, you didn't need to crank your amp to record so why would it distort on low vol??? Anyway, it would be cool to have a preamp or pedal that could give me those sounds. It's all been done, there is no "new sound" and a killer tone is a killer tone regardless of age.
 
#38
wolfkeller said:
I can't say anything about the" good old days" as I was born in '73. I really didn't know about all the limitations on gear. I do know I've heard countless bass lines from the 60s on that were clean or relatively clean. I mean, you didn't need to crank your amp to record so why would it distort on low vol??? Anyway, it would be cool to have a preamp or pedal that could give me those sounds. It's all been done, there is no "new sound" and a killer tone is a killer tone regardless of age.
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Assuming you didn't record live on the floor. Hell, Zeppelin was was a clean ass sound IMO
 

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