I'll let you know how a Marshall JTM45/100 sounds as soon as my KT66s arrive.
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We've lost the old school sound.
- Thread starter wolfkeller
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- old old school school
I'll let you know how a Marshall JTM45/100 sounds as soon as my KT66s arrive.
Take a 100 watt Marshall full stack with a Les Paul and crank it up past 7 and you will soon realize why the old school stuff sounds great. Do the same thing with an Acoustic 360 or 370 with a couple of those beautiful 18" W boxes with a P or J and you'll also hear why. Take a Hammond B3 or C3 and hook it up to 4 Leslie 147's crank it and guess what same thing. Make sure you record it all with 4, 8, or 16 track analog tape to get the full effect.
Today's mega overdive amps, super clean class D bass amps, and digital recording just can't duplicate that old school stuff. Plus every group back then had their own style and sound. Not like the same old same old cookie cutter stuff released by everyone nowadays. This is of course just my opinion YMMV.
Today's mega overdive amps, super clean class D bass amps, and digital recording just can't duplicate that old school stuff. Plus every group back then had their own style and sound. Not like the same old same old cookie cutter stuff released by everyone nowadays. This is of course just my opinion YMMV.
Beck-Ola takes me back. The sound of 200 watts of Marshall on 11 trying to turn 2 412 cabs inside out. Used to see those guys all the time.
That is the Marshall 1992 Lemmy Kilmister signature SuperBass!
Don't forget, It was recorded on tape that took some saturation so it translated somewhat lo-fi. In the 70's I had an Acoustic 370 and 301 bottom and it sounded great on stage, but I can get a vintage sound out of my stuff now. It's not real modern. 90's or so and I have some real old Ampeg and Sunn. Our band plays 60's, 70's, Steely Dan, Allmans, etc.
No secrets... gear is only a small piece of the equation. 60' and 70's recordings often went strait DI to a tube compressor, then to tape. Some tape saturation, and there you have it.
If you can't get an old school tone out of a Heritage SVT - I really do think you should spend some time fiddling with all of the knobs and perhaps your bass. It's just that so many of the classic tones came from cranked tune amps like the SVT. Either that, or try to find some solo bass tracks of your favorite bassists on YouTube. You may find you're chasing a ghost.
Speakers have a lot to do with it. Up until the very late '70s or early '80s there wasn't any such thing as a real bass instrument speaker like we have now. Basically a bass speaker back then was no different than a guitar speaker, other than it came in a larger diameter (15" or 18") and could handle a slightly higher number of watts. And that was fine because back then most amps didn't go much over 100 watts if they even went that high at all. The main reason you see those massive walls of amps back then was for the same reason a symphony has twenty violins - to get more volume. Even the vintage behemoths like the Ampeg SVT (300 watts), the Sunn Coliseum (320 watts), and the Acoustic 360/3361 stacks (200 watts per cab) would make most amp buyers chuckle over their low numbers compared to today's 800 watt and up Class D amps. Or would until they stood in front of one that was fully cranked, hit an open E and felt their pancreas swap places with their liver.
So you had lower powered amps that were cranked most times. No such thing as a gain and master volume knob most times back then either. The volume knob controlled volume back then. All of it. And any distortion you got mainly came from pushing the power stage into a speaker cab that could (just barely) handle the load. This was electro-acoustic speaker distortion you were hearing. Not a souped up gain stage overdriving the input of the power amp or preamp like we do it today. Totally different design with a noticeably different sound. And far fewer blown speakers because of how it's done now.
Can this old sound be duplicated without vintage gear? The short answer is: yes. But it's not easy. And it'll cost ya.
For bass, the closest "affordable" way that I've heard to get close to some of that old school tone is to use a modern amp with a Catalinbread SFT overdrive in front of it, and run it through a pair of 15" ported cabs. And then play it the way most bass used to get played back then - down low without a lot of treble. Also pay attention to your playing dynamics. The old tube amps had a natural compression that resulted from the way tubes work, so there wasn't the immediacy of attack you get today. Some characterize it as a "bouncy" feel.
The vid below will give you some idea of how it sounds despite the recording quality not being that great.
Guitarists have it easier. You can still buy Fenders and Vox amps that sound like the old gear. They just sound cleaner and better than the old stuff because they're newer. The circuitry is still mostly the same. And you can get virtually identical speakers with those of the era without going to a custom shop. Celestion and others have reissued a lot of their vintage designs as regular catalog items.
So you had lower powered amps that were cranked most times. No such thing as a gain and master volume knob most times back then either. The volume knob controlled volume back then. All of it. And any distortion you got mainly came from pushing the power stage into a speaker cab that could (just barely) handle the load. This was electro-acoustic speaker distortion you were hearing. Not a souped up gain stage overdriving the input of the power amp or preamp like we do it today. Totally different design with a noticeably different sound. And far fewer blown speakers because of how it's done now.
Can this old sound be duplicated without vintage gear? The short answer is: yes. But it's not easy. And it'll cost ya.
For bass, the closest "affordable" way that I've heard to get close to some of that old school tone is to use a modern amp with a Catalinbread SFT overdrive in front of it, and run it through a pair of 15" ported cabs. And then play it the way most bass used to get played back then - down low without a lot of treble. Also pay attention to your playing dynamics. The old tube amps had a natural compression that resulted from the way tubes work, so there wasn't the immediacy of attack you get today. Some characterize it as a "bouncy" feel.
The vid below will give you some idea of how it sounds despite the recording quality not being that great.
Guitarists have it easier. You can still buy Fenders and Vox amps that sound like the old gear. They just sound cleaner and better than the old stuff because they're newer. The circuitry is still mostly the same. And you can get virtually identical speakers with those of the era without going to a custom shop. Celestion and others have reissued a lot of their vintage designs as regular catalog items.
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Fender super bassman 300. Tube. 2 channels, one is a vintage stack, the other is the best overdrive channel with a blend circuit I've ever used. I stopped looking at amps when I bought mine 5 or so years ago. I run it with a sunn 215 clone cab with the slot port. It sounds huge.
Also, Justin Meldal-Johnsen is active in the ask a pro forum. Dude is a monster vintage tone maven. He lays down tracks all the time that have that sound you seek in spades. You could pop over there and ask what contemporary gear will give you what you're after. He's probably going to suggest vintage.
An old or new Ampeg V4B with an Ampeg 8x10 fridge (preferrably AV), does the trick. I play an old '65 P or a '68 Telecaster Bass. Dirt, that is defined and sounds great in the mix old school. Old Ampeg B-15 amps are still plentiful.
