What’s the best way to deal with a drummer who plays too slow?

[jdthebassman]

in my experience you either have time or you don't. you need someone that has pocket central and natural instincts to change when needed.

 

[rockinbilly]

I would add that our drummer is quite accomplished, played with some big professional acts, and orchestras, but he was quite receptive of my suggestion of starting songs with a metronome. Plus, I hang close to him on stage to feel him better, and he watches my feet so we are locked into each other !

 

[awakefie]

From my experience, when the drummer couldn't solve their issues we found another drummer.

+1. As a bass player, if I have issues (and I do) it is up to me to solve them, not other members of the band. If I can't or won't the band should let me go as other problems will arise.

 

[2tonic]

Your drummer has obviously seen "That Thing You Do", so you're screwed!

However, you could remind him that the band still breaks up.
Or, you can find out who recommended the movie to him, and beat their ass, if it will make you feel better.

Seriously, pick 3 or 4 songs that are the worst offenders, and play him the original recording slowed down 20%, or sped up the same amount. ("Cocaine" is a useful example. That song is tedious enough, but 20% slower it becomes absolutely oppressive!)

I find no problem with adjusting the original tempo of material to make it suit your set, and the energy level you want for that moment, but that's part of creating an arrangement of a song, and you all need to be in agreement on the final version. That includes the tempo.
Remind the drummer that tempo is his responsibility. He wouldn't like it if you all were 20% out of tune, or played songs in different keys from one another, 'cause you felt like it.
Reiterate that tempo is important. It's almost his one job.

Call a rehearsal, and if he miscounts a song, stop and tell him "That's not the song we're playing, mate. I don't know what you're doing, but the song we're playing goes like this!"

As previously suggested in this thread, a silent visual metronome can be very helpful., even if you run it and just place it in his peripheral vision. He may be unable to ignore it, and fall right into counting off in sync with it. Problem solved.
Oh, he may bitch about it some, but the vehemence of his protests will tell everyone whether to consider him a pro, or strictly pedestrian.
Good Luck!

 

[awakefie]

"...or he’ll hand me the sticks as if to say, don’t tell me how to play drums."

This would be a huge issue for me. I make it a policy not to tell anyone how to play their instrument but I have no problem telling them what is and isn't acceptable in the band. I wouldn't take the sticks but I also wouldn't have a problem telling him "you have a tempo issue - you're 15-20 bpm too slow on the song, you need to fix it". If he doesn't want to work on it you have an issue. If he doesn't think he's the problem, you have a bigger issue.

 

[7615]

It is selfishness pure and simple. The drummer picks those speeds because he is comfortable at those speeds. He has no thought for the singer's phrasing or anyone else's for that matter. The singer should tell him... a speed too slow makes me work so hard.

That is why the singer is always right - is how the saying goes. The most important parts of a song is the melody, vocals first followed by instruments that "sing" cantabile - the drummer in pop music provides a platform for the others.

Even as a bassist - a simple drop bass if played too fast becomes polka, etc....

 

[7615]

We had a similar problem with our drummer and he would get passive aggressive when we had to stop songs and get the tempo up at practice.
Our next drummer came from a jazz background and was the best drummer I have played with. He would dial up the bpm of every song and it was GREAT. Nothing wrong with that.

To fast is also a problem

 

[BOOG]

The bast way to deal w/that w/ out offending he drummer: "hey man, is sounds like we're dragging a little bit.. We tend to play a little slower than we should, can you help us keeping the time steady?"

Yep^

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

He is incapable of doing what you ask. Thus, he isn’t doing it and throwing fits. Next time he hands you his sticks, throw them out the door.

 

[Corevalay]

he plays the songs accurately except for the pace.

That'a pretty big component of the song. If he's way off on the tempos, that's unacceptable. If he gets offended when asked to play it accurately, that's obviously a bad sign. I don't care if you're technically the best drummer in the world, if you can't keep good tempos, you're of little use to me.

 

[dougjwray]

I played with a drummer who was actually excellent -- recording with internationally known artists, etc. -- but he had a "laid back pocket", and would aggressively enforce this, even when the band was in a live situation where a little more energy would have been nice. I remember one gig where the lead guitarist and I looked back at him to suggest, "Could you maybe pick it up just a little?" but he had his eyes closed, and his jaw was clenched.
The point is that the context matters, too. This guy had complete control over tempos -- finding the right one and holding it -- but he was such a perfectionist that when the dancers at a lowly rock 'n' roll bar gig really needed to be goosed, he was picturing himself in a recording studio on a multi-million dollar project, or something, and holding himself to that standard.

 

[Shalto]

I agree. I had a conversation with my drummer about this tonight. His first inclination (which I told him wasn't true) was that this couldn't be a serious post; that 15 to 20 BPM is too big a discrepancy to be real in an actual band-with-drummer context.

I let him know this was a legitimate question and concern, and he basically said what you just said. I know he is very much a stickler about tempo and when things are off by a hair, he notices. Maybe he's the only one who notices and can also put his finger on what the problem is, but if it's noticeable to him, it's noticeable to others.

However, he did point out that these differences are less noticeable at fast tempos and said that if this band is playing fast metal, 5 BPM difference might not be as stark. But 15 is still pretty dramatic, even fast.

Yes, playing to a click can be fun, but I much prefer listening to a band that doesn't use a click, music (tempo) should breathe, imo.

Personally I think this is very much dependent on style of music being played and skill of the musicians. I too generally prefer as a listener non rigid time, but it's not always appropriate. E.g drum and bass, hip hop often demand very tight timekeeping. So if you are playing those styles a click is probably necessary.

 

[Shalto]

in my experience you either have time or you don't. you need someone that has pocket central and natural instincts to change when needed.

I think it's more of a spectrum, how far from perfect are you? For the very best the distance is imperctible to the human ear. Those folks are rare, even among full timers

Pocket is the combo of feel and timing, I agree the feel part is more of an instinct thing. It can be learned though, feel can be developed by listening to and dancing to music (esp if focussing on a single genre) as well as practice.

 

[Mark Ambler]

Personally I think this is very much dependent on style of music being played and skill of the musicians. I too generally prefer as a listener non rigid time, but it's not always appropriate. E.g drum and bass, hip hop often demand very tight timekeeping. So if you are playing those styles a click is probably necessary.

Maybe necessary depending on your skill level, would be more correct, imo. Perhaps if you are after a sort of ‘sequenced’ feel, (i.e. Giorgio Moroder - Donna Summer, I feel love), a click track would be necessary. Playing live to a click, sucks, however well it’s done, in my experience.

 

[factory presets]

Yes, playing to a click can be fun, but I much prefer listening to a band that doesn't use a click, music (tempo) should breathe, imo.

That's good if it works. Pick up drummers can come across all manner of pockets other musicians like to sit in. Which one he should follow to keep the feel a band is going for is not always obvious. If he keeps a steady beat, the rest of the band can fall into place around that.

But yes. In a well rehearsed band, relevant tempo fluctuations can add a lot to a feel. OTOH if the groove isn't working, a click can be a useful tool for fixing it.

Or use a conductor for the best of both worlds.

 

[7615]

That’s a pretty unique problem, contrasting the common runaway-train-drummer-speeding-up-as-the-song-goes-on issue.....which is just classic.

That is a true classic that can not be fixed.

 

[socialleper]

Cocaine? Meth?

 

[Strung_Low]

 

[MrLenny1]

A visual metronome. Set it , place it on the bass drum
and play correct tempo.

 

[fdeck]

A drummer clued me into a cell phone app called Live BPM, which figures out your tempo via a microphone, and displays it.