Once again a joke. Love of God I do listen and like metal. Yes there are very intricate metal bands I enjoy. Should have joined the Pan Flute forum.
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What about Jam bands??
- Thread starter On the down low
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Once again a joke. Love of God I do listen and like metal. Yes there are very intricate metal bands I enjoy. Should have joined the Pan Flute forum.
You stated that people have problems categorizing Miles with Gov't Mule- I was just wondering if people really have a problem with that, and if so, what's the problem. The Wikipedia link you keep posting quotes Butch Trucks/Allman bros saying that they don't want to be pigeonholed as a jam band, but then mentions that it's really just a matter of semantics, which has been my point the whole time.
Maybe I accept a broader definition of "jam band" than most, but it comes from a place of deep appreciation for the music and countless hours over many years of intense listening and studying of Miles's music as well as contemporary bands like Phish. I really love them both.
Can you imagine the wadded panties that would surely occur in other circles around the idea that Miles also layed the groundwork for hip hop with his album On the Corner, featuring looping and sampling of bass and drums?! It's among the earliest examples of this technique being used. I'll have to try to find a link to some of that analysis. They may have even been in a recent re-release liner notes or something... Can't rember who wrote on that.
and even the Allman Bros had the jams somewhat mapped out. However I wouldn't have minded at all if Mountain Jam was 5 min long instead of 17.
I think that was him getting his ass beat by a biker gang for taking pedophilic pictures of one of their daughters. True story, unfortunately.
Yes, people really do have a problem with that. The Wiki quoted Schools from WSP about being pigeonholed, Greg Allman's reason for not wanting to be lumped in as a jam band is not expressed... the "semantic" argument was from the author. And Derek Trucks also does not give a specific reason. But anyways, those are the artists, and I personally believe that people like Miles and Frank Zappa would also have a major problem with it.
But, anecdotally, I know many fans who are passionately opposed to it as well. They believe that it takes away from the achievements and legacy of a Jazz musician like Miles Davis to be lumped in with bands who aren't really creating anything new. Even moreso, I know dozens of Deadheads who have total resentment that the Grateful Dead are now lumped in with all of the bands that tried to ride their coattails.
You or I may agree/disagree with them, and maybe some of the originals are flattered, but it's certainly an understandable position.
Bill Lazwell has said that in print. As someone who wore out 2 copies of OTC, I'd agree. Lazwell got to remix the original tapes as "Panthalasa" and did a good job.
I see what you're saying- I completly agree with your anecdotal statements and have similar experience, although your interpretation of your Wiki source seems off- Butch Trucks (not to be confused with Derek Trucks) quotes Greg Allman on the semantics argument, not the author editorializing.
From your Wiki source:
"Some artists such as The Derek Trucks Band are known for resisting the label"
"An example of a prior-era band that gained the label "jam band" through an active affiliation with the 1990s jam band culture is The Allman Brothers Band. However, Gregg Allman has been quoted as recently as 2003 by his fellow band member Butch Trucks in stating that rather than being a jam band The Allman Brothers are "a band that jams".[16]""
"Although Trucks suggests that this is only a difference of semantics"
(End Quote)
Like almost every other genre, "Jam" covers a lot of ground. Within any genre, there are some major comparative differences between the constituents of that genre.
Cannible Corps vs. Black Sabbath? Both "Metal".
Merle Haggard vs Keith Urban? Both "country".
Bob Marley vs. Shaggy? Lol, "reggae"
Mingus vs. Kenny G?
Labels become complicated only if you put a lot of stock into them... People have an inherent need to categorize, I guess. I think it becomes challenging with "jam bands" because the very nature of a jam band is to span musical genre boundaries.
To your point, Miles had an aversion to being labeled as "Jazz", or anything else for that matter! Multiple biographical/autobiographical accounts from his many transitional periods where he was having to shake off the "Jazz" label. Who knows, he might have been down with a "jam band" label.
I'm a big Cheese head. They have great albums and amazing live shows.
The live shows are all about the energy and being apart of it. If your being apart of the energy then the 20 minute songs/jam just feels good if your standing back and just watching then I could see how it could drive you nuts. I do both and love every minute of it.
The live shows are all about the energy and being apart of it. If your being apart of the energy then the 20 minute songs/jam just feels good if your standing back and just watching then I could see how it could drive you nuts. I do both and love every minute of it.
I do thank the people who gave me some insight to checking out some new types of music though. Everyone has different tastes. I don't care if you play Mary had a little lamb, or the next big thing, and have more fans than Taylor Swift. I just hope someone tells you you are really good at Mary had a little lamb.
Since we're talking about jam bands, we might as well bring in the discussion of Type I and Type II jamming. Type I as in extended solos over the main chord progression and Type II as in reaching for new territory and building a jam section into a new song on the spot. A much more free jazz approach.
I think these differences really set apart a lot of bands that "jam" and how boring or not boring it can be to be in the crowd for them. Personally I would much rather see bands taking more risk with type II jamming. Although it can be hit or miss, when it hits it can be amazing. Type I is the jamming I usually get bored listening to. It's safer but can get generic if you have seen the band before.
Just some of my thoughts. I'm sure some people will not agree and that's okay
I think these differences really set apart a lot of bands that "jam" and how boring or not boring it can be to be in the crowd for them. Personally I would much rather see bands taking more risk with type II jamming. Although it can be hit or miss, when it hits it can be amazing. Type I is the jamming I usually get bored listening to. It's safer but can get generic if you have seen the band before.
Just some of my thoughts. I'm sure some people will not agree and that's okay
A great thing about Jam is that as a player you have to listen and respond to dynamic things happening in the music. Anyone in any style can benefit from doing that.
On the other hand, as an audience member you get to hear the 20% of the awesome ideas along with the 80% of stuff that goes nowhere. Lots of root, too. I also really die to hear the guys at least go to the IV now and then. That's why I personally don't go to many jam concerts.
On the other hand, as an audience member you get to hear the 20% of the awesome ideas along with the 80% of stuff that goes nowhere. Lots of root, too. I also really die to hear the guys at least go to the IV now and then. That's why I personally don't go to many jam concerts.
Miles' influence on jam bands (or whatever you want to call the genre) was simple yet profound: Enrico Merlin, "Code MD: Coded Phrases in the First Electric Period"
"Although Trucks suggests that this is only a difference of semantics" <--- That isn't part of the quote, that is the interpretation by the article's author. I know, doesn't matter, I'm just pointing out that Greg Allman and Derek Trucks do not have their reasons expressed in the article and may not consider it to only be a matter of semantics.
Metal, Country, and Reggae all have subgenres. I had to look up Cannibal Corps, they are listed as "Death Metal" while Black Sabbath is listed as "rock band".
I don't disagree with having genres, just that the current "Jam Band" genre is way too general and much too inclusive, I do wish there were subgenres. Anyways, thats my opinion and I've already said way too much about it.
So, some of you think that any band that does any amount of improvisation is a jam band?!?!? That's a complete joke!! Go aks some bod!!!!
I started this thread to get some insight on the players that are not well know in these bands. I don't give a rat's a$$ about what band is classified as what. Engelbert Humpherdinck could be labeled as a jam band for all I know, but is his bass player known and does his playing catch my attention. If it does I want more Humpherdinck.
Overall, I find jam bands a snore. I have many friends who play in them. Can't make it through one set. Different strokes
Semantics. Take, say, The Bad Plus. Jam or jazz? Who cares! As a bonus, you even get an improvised story at the beginning of the song. As a double bonus, you get to listen to drummer extraordinaire Dave King!
Yes, your thread took a few unexpected turns. This is an internet forum, and a lightly moderated one at that. It's not too surprising. I think highly of the few jam band bass players that I know of.
