What am I doing wrong DI'ing into the PA?

[Old Garage-Bander]

If you amp has a signal adjustment knob on your DI (my old Eden does) just turn that down a bit and you should be fine. I've had to turn my signal down once and up one time too. Most of the time it just stays straight up flat.

Just had another thought because I had a mixing board do this to me once. Ask the guy running the board to be sure that phantom power is OFF on your channel. You don't want him sending power to you because you are not a mic that needs it. Your DI should have protection built in so it doesn't damage your amp, but it "might" be causing part of your problem if he has it turned on. Don't really know if that would make a difference, but may as well cover it.

Good point.
Using phantom power with adapters between XLR and TS jacks can also be a problem.

 

[SLO Surfer]

On the mixers without a pad, is there a mic/line button?

I've stumped a few "sound guys" at venues before by asking them that question when they say my DI level is way too hot.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

On the mixers without a pad, is there a mic/line button?

I've stumped a few "sound guys" at venues before by asking them that question when they say my DI level is way too hot.

At least you aren't calling them Audio Engineer.

 

[sowilson]

OP, straight from your mixer manual tells you what to do

2. CONNECTING INPUTS AND OUTPUTS TO YOUR MIXER

• For low level balanced devices such as microphones, plug into the balanced MIC inputs using a shielded microphone cable with XLR connectors.
• For high level balanced or unbalanced devices such as instruments & keyboards, plug into the LINE input jacks using a shielded cable with 1/4"phone plugs. Adjust the GAIN knob for the mic or line input being used.
• Connect outputs to power amps or (C1648P) speakers before turning the mixer on, but wait to turn the amps on until after the mixer is powered up to avoid loud thumps.

So, if you're close to the mixer then run an XLR to 1/4" (TRS) from your bass amp to the mixer. Or use a mic cable (or snake) and then a short jumper cable to the mixer., Or a 20 DB pad should work. Basically the XLR inputs on your mixer are microphone level only. You could also use something like a Radial J-Iso

 

[xabicho]

Try a passive D.I. Box. Go from your bass to the D.I. Then take the XLR output to the snake input, that is a balanced signal. Remember the Gain on the mixer is how much signal are you letting into that channel. Set the EQ on the mixer flat, you can even have the channel mute during this process turn the gain down to Zero and start increment in it until the red light indicator start flashing then turn down it a pinch, you should be playing your bass during this process. Once the input is regulated turn down the fader to zero, unmute the channel. Remember the fader is how much signal you are sending to the Master faders, start increasing it little by little if the signal is to hot you can turn down the gain a little bit to have more headroom on the fader. In addition you can use a pad if the mixer has that feature on the channel. If your Basses are passive you should be able to get a good signal. If you use a preamp with XLR output be certain that your D.I. Output is not to hot.

 

[Janforth]

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Encourage the sound-person to use the line input instead of mic input, I believe this might be the remedy.

*EDIT* as @sowilson stated

• For high level balanced or unbalanced devices such as instruments & keyboards, plug into the LINE input jacks using a shielded cable with 1/4"phone plugs. Adjust the GAIN knob for the mic or line input being used.

 

[LUpton]

^^^^ This ^^^^

...because the balanced 1/4" (TRS) line input on most mixers already includes attenuation circuitry to allow hotter (1 volt or more) signals to enter the channel without distortion. A properly constructed XLR to TRS adapter maintains a balanced signal situation for noise rejection on long lines.

 

[HeadWind]

OP, straight from your mixer manual tells you what to do

2. CONNECTING INPUTS AND OUTPUTS TO YOUR MIXER

• For low level balanced devices such as microphones, plug into the balanced MIC inputs using a shielded microphone cable with XLR connectors.
• For high level balanced or unbalanced devices such as instruments & keyboards, plug into the LINE input jacks using a shielded cable with 1/4"phone plugs. Adjust the GAIN knob for the mic or line input being used.
• Connect outputs to power amps or (C1648P) speakers before turning the mixer on, but wait to turn the amps on until after the mixer is powered up to avoid loud thumps.

So, if you're close to the mixer then run an XLR to 1/4" (TRS) from your bass amp to the mixer. Or use a mic cable (or snake) and then a short jumper cable to the mixer., Or a 20 DB pad should work. Basically the XLR inputs on your mixer are microphone level only. You could also use something like a Radial J-Iso

This more or less gets to what my basic question was (which was answered).

Last night I was indeed going to try to go into the 1/4" phone plug input on the mixer, since it's built to accept line level. I had previous bought this XLR-TS cable for a different application and was going to use it to convert the end of my XLR-XLR cable into a 1/4" plug at the mixer end. Unfortunately, after I typed up my original post, I discovered that cable was the wrong gender, so I didn't.

My basic question was: is it unusual to not be able to just run an XLR-XLR cable from the DI to the mixer; and the answer I got here is no, it is not unusual. Sometimes you need either something to convert the signal to a TRS 1/4" jack, or sometimes you hit a pad button if there is one, or sometimes you need a pad plug adapter.

 

[sowilson]

My basic question was: is it unusual to not be able to just run an XLR-XLR cable from the DI to the mixer.

Many consoles are wired like yours, it can be a "style" thing with the company making the console. I actually prefer to have XLR inputs and then a switch for mic/line - with 1/4" TRS reserved for channel inserts (especially in dark clubs where seeing can be an issue). The thing to look at is the signal range of the input. On better consoles there will be more range for both mic and line so most of the time it almost doesn't matter what input you choose for the DI - for example an Allen-Heath console I'm looking at has a mic input range of -63 to +5dBu, and a line input range of -25 to +10dBu so I bet your DI would work if plugged in via the XLR, otherwise you would need a short XLRF to 1/4"TRSM cable.

If I step up the Allen-Heath line of consoles (GL2400) I see that the Mic XLR is normaled through the Line TRS and it has a Line/Pad button on the input channel. So as long as you don't plug into the line input (i.e. put mic or line input via the XLR) then the button applies a 20dB pad and you get +34dB of headroom - which would be more than enough for a hot DI.

So, pay more money have better features.

 

[Frankjohnson]

True, but doesn't the MASTER knob on the Tonehammer the OP uses control the output signal level??
Turn that down to ZERO, hook up the XLR to the mixer, set channel gain on mixer to half, and bring up the Tonehammer master until you get a good level. Adjust either side if the signal is too hot.

I have a similar issue with the DI on my SVT7Pro amp. The XLR DI is too hot for our mixer - there isn't a pad. It has a -40dB pad on the amp.. which is TOO MUCH cut, so I use the 15dB pad on the input side of the amp when I use it.

I was thinking this - I am using the XR18 and I believe that is the route I would take. I dont' think the Xr18 has a pad function (I could be wrong) so I would bring it down from the input source if possible.

 

[hbarcat]

This more or less gets to what my basic question was (which was answered).

Last night I was indeed going to try to go into the 1/4" phone plug input on the mixer, since it's built to accept line level. I had previous bought this XLR-TS cable for a different application and was going to use it to convert the end of my XLR-XLR cable into a 1/4" plug at the mixer end. Unfortunately, after I typed up my original post, I discovered that cable was the wrong gender, so I didn't.

My basic question was: is it unusual to not be able to just run an XLR-XLR cable from the DI to the mixer; and the answer I got here is no, it is not unusual. Sometimes you need either something to convert the signal to a TRS 1/4" jack, or sometimes you hit a pad button if there is one, or sometimes you need a pad plug adapter.

Get an XLR to TRS cable and use the line level input on the mixer. This is the proper way to do it and your problems will be solved once and for all. I know this works because I run sound for my band and other bands and I always make it a priority to connect this way. I have all my own professional PA gear and extensive experience using it.

Avoid using the XLR inputs on a mixer for line level signals - they're for mic level signals. That's why mixers have both available as options. Use the option that's appropriate.

EDIT: fixed link to correct cable
Mogami CorePlus TRS-XLR Female Cable - 10'

 

[Grumry]

You need a DI or head with a PAD.

 

[Janforth]

Get an XLR to TRS cable and use the line level input on the mixer. This is the proper way to do it and your problems will be solved once and for all. I know this works because I run sound for my band and other bands and I always make it a priority to connect this way. I have all my own professional PA gear and extensive experience using it.

Avoid using the XLR inputs on a mixer for line level signals - they're for mic level signals. That's why mixers have both available as options. Use the option that's appropriate.

Pro Co BPBQXM-10 Excellines Balanced Patch Cable - 10'

Would the XLR need to be female to TRS male?

 

[hbarcat]

You need a DI or head with a PAD.

He won't need a pad if he just uses the TRS line level input on the mixer. Having the correct $20 cable allows him to do that.

 

[hbarcat]

Would the XLR need to be female to TRS male?

Yes, you're correct. I'll edit my post with a link to the proper cable.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Get an XLR to TRS cable and use the line level input on the mixer. This is the proper way to do it and your problems will be solved once and for all. I know this works because I run sound for my band and other bands and I always make it a priority to connect this way. I have all my own professional PA gear and extensive experience using it.

Avoid using the XLR inputs on a mixer for line level signals - they're for mic level signals. That's why mixers have both available as options. Use the option that's appropriate.

Pro Co BPBQXM-10 Excellines Balanced Patch Cable - 10'

Many mixers with XLR inputs can accommodate both mic and line level inputs.
Personally, I would not consider recommending a mixer that didn't do this. YMMV.

 

[hbarcat]

Many mixers with XLR inputs can accommodate both mic and line level inputs.
Personally, I would not consider recommending a mixer that didn't do this. YMMV.

That is true. My mixers have this option. Also, some of my DI boxes have the option of pads built in so the XLR out can be either line level or mic level.

But OP is apparently using DI's and mixers that don't allow this flexibility so the XLR to TRS cable is the most sensible solution to the problem at hand.

 

[hbabels]

Some mixers xlr inputs can't take line level well some can. Some have a pad switch to help with this. It's definitely worth having an xlr to 1/4trs cable handy to try may work great with some setups. A pad or level control on your output may help as well.
The hard part about so many types of gear is that there's no 1 right way to make them all play nice together. It's best to have. Couple of options on hand.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

That is true. My mixers have this option. Also, some of my DI boxes have the option of pads built in so the XLR out can be either line level or mic level.

But OP is apparently using DI's and mixers that don't allow this flexibility so the XLR to TRS cable is the most sensible solution to the problem at hand.

Yep. If that's all he has, that's all he can do.

If you have the option, why don't you use the XLR inputs?
XLRs, IMO are a superior, more reliable connector than 1/4".

 

[hbarcat]

If you have the option, why don't you use the XLR inputs?
XLRs, IMO are a superior, more reliable connector than 1/4".

XLR inputs are for mic levels. 1/4" inputs are for line level instruments. There are good reasons why you don't mismatch levels. Shoving line level outputs into XLR inputs results in a degraded signal because the input gain has to be turned down almost all the way to avoid overloading the mixer. Doing this means the signal to noise ratio is greatly reduced.

If that's your only option then you really have no choice, but the best way to handle a DI line level output is to use the 1/4" TRS input on the mixer.

It's clear there are differences of opinion here but I stand by my statements based on my professional experience.