What cab to pair with power amp, SansAmp DI?

[Ptbakes77]

I've been trying to put together a budget rig for live shows that emulates Ampeg tones. So I got my SansAmp V2 and a used Crown Power-Tech 2, with the intention of eventually finding a used 4x10 cab. I'm curious if 1) if my tone is coming from my pedalboard, should I try to find a more transparent cab, hold out for an Ampeg cab, or does it even matter at all, and 2) are there any other (cheaper) brands that have that kind of Ampeg coloration? In the past I have only DI'd or used a backline. While I know some amps work better with some cabs, I've never owned a stack, so I don't have a ton of experience with them outside of gigs.

 

[57pbass]

You might take a look at the Hartke 2x10 sealed cab or other sealed 2x10 cabs.
The Ampeg guys will have to validate this but the SVT 8x10 cab has 4 sealed compartments with 2x10 within each.

 

[Ptbakes77]

You might take a look at the Hartke 2x10 sealed cab or other sealed 2x10 cabs.
The Ampeg guys will have to validate this but the SVT 8x10 cab has 4 sealed compartments with 2x10 within each.

Good tip, I've certainly seen a lot of Hartke's for sale

 

[agedhorse]

The Hartke doesn’t sound much like the Ampeg 810 at all.

 

[Al Kraft]

The Hartke doesn’t sound much like the Ampeg 810 at all.

+1...I owned Hartke cabs for years (4.5 and 2.5 XL models) and a buddy currently has the Hartke 210XL (sealed) and 115 XL. While I personally like the sound of all those cabs (and they are all different), none for them make me think Ampeg.

If you want the Ampeg vibe I don't think there are many cab choices other than Ampeg. Just because a cab is a sealed design doesn't mean it will sound like all or even any other sealed cabs. The engineer's voicing goals are what gives each cab its unique sound.

My AK C112T can operate sealed or with various degrees of porting and IMO could never be confused with an Ampeg or any of the Hartkes I mentioned above.

 

[Al Kraft]

I'll offer one additional thought on cabs to possibly be a bit more helpful than my last post. Since the purpose of SanAmp products is to produce a sound highly reminiscent of "fill in the blank" amp/cab combinations (which can vary depending on the particular SansAmp and its settings), going for a more FRFR type cab might offer the best result. In theory between Crown "pure power amp for gain only" and a "no additional coloring cab" the SansAmp amp/cab output would be exactly what you would hear at the volume you set on the amp.

Some of the largest outdoor shows I've played were through SansAmp products where the FOH and monitors were handled by the sound techs at the mixing desk. Everyone was pleased with the result and I was using the SansAmp product very much as intended by the designers. My suggestion to look at FRFR cabs would sort of put your set up in this same operational model and offer you a chance to get every voicing out of the SansAmp without competing or added coloration. .

You sometimes hear people complain about a SansAmp when run into the input of a bass amp and cab. In these cases you have an already voiced amp and cab either being fed a different "simulated amp/cab voicing" which doesn't blend well or a doubling of the effect which can be "too much of a good thing". In some cases it works out fine, but it's always a bit of a gamble when using a product differently than what it was designed for.

Try out some cabs if you can and test out the thoughts I just offered. I think that's the only way to be sure you'll get the results you're looking/listening for. I hope that's helpful.

 

[Ptbakes77]

I'll offer one additional thought on cabs to possibly be a bit more helpful than my last post. Since the purpose of SanAmp products is to produce a sound highly reminiscent of "fill in the blank" amp/cab combinations (which can vary depending on the particular SansAmp and its settings), going for a more FRFR type cab might offer the best result. In theory between Crown "pure power amp for gain only" and a "no additional coloring cab" the SansAmp amp/cab output would be exactly what you would hear at the volume you set on the amp.

Some of the largest outdoor shows I've played were through SansAmp products where the FOH and monitors were handled by the sound techs at the mixing desk. Everyone was pleased with the result and I was using the SansAmp product very much as intended by the designers. My suggestion to look at FRFR cabs would sort of put your set up in this same operational model and offer you a chance to get every voicing out of the SansAmp without competing or added coloration. .

You sometimes hear people complain about a SansAmp when run into the input of a bass amp and cab. In these cases you have an already voiced amp and cab either being fed a different "simulated amp/cab voicing" which doesn't blend well or a doubling of the effect which can be "too much of a good thing". In some cases it works out fine, but it's always a bit of a gamble when using a product differently than what it was designed for.

Try out some cabs if you can and test out the thoughts I just offered. I think that's the only way to be sure you'll get the results you're looking/listening for. I hope that's helpful.

Thank you ! That's exactly the answer I was looking for. I would likely continue DI'ing primarily but this would be for gigs where that's not an option for whatever reason

 

[Wasnex]

What's the budget?

IMHO the sound people associate with an SVT is about 80% due to the 810E. It's a pretty heavily voiced cab. I personally do not enjoy using an 810E, but if that's the sound you want, they sometimes pop up cheap.

If you must have a 410, the Ampeg 410HE uses the same woofers as the the 810E. The chambers in the 410HE are slightly smaller than the chambers in the 810E. Also the 410HE has a tweeter that you can dial down or turn off. A pair of 410HE's with the tweeters turned off should sound almost identical to an 810E. A single 410HE is likely to be thinner down low.

Another option would be to hunt down a Bergantino NV610. These are voiced similar to the 810E, but they are lighter.

 

[Wasnex]

The best way to find out what you like is to play a bunch of cabs.

 

[Ptbakes77]

What's the budget?

$300, maybe $400 at the absolute most.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

IMHO the sound people associate with an SVT is about 80% due to the 810E. It's a pretty heavily voiced cab.

The Sansamp already has the cab simulation baked in and you don't need an 8X10 cab. It is supposed to sound like a miked cabinet through a PA system which is pretty transparent in general.

 

[Al Kraft]

The Sansamp already has the cab simulation baked in and you don't need an 8X10 cab. It is supposed to sound like a miked cabinet through a PA system which is pretty transparent in general.

+1...This is one of the primary thoughts that underpinned my response above. .

 

[walterw]

a used Crown Power-Tech 2

oh good lord, i hope you got it for free

that thing doesn't weigh all that much less than a real SVT head

(either way, any decent cab where you can turn the horn off will do just fine to create serviceable SVT-ish tones with a sansamp)

 

[Ptbakes77]

The Sansamp already has the cab simulation baked in and you don't need an 8X10 cab. It is supposed to sound like a miked cabinet through a PA system which is pretty transparent in general.

That makes sense to me. What @Al Kraft said about a FRFR cab, or at least something hi fi also makes sense. I was thinking of the kinds of set ups where for whatever reason you need an amp-- no good PA setup or limited inputs, quality stage sound, loud rehearsal etc.

Separate note, I will say with the Sansamp's mix knob full tilt or near there, I've been able to largely override whatever head I've been using, in situations where the head is the DI source

 

[Ptbakes77]

oh good lord, i hope you got it for free

that thing doesn't weigh all that much less than a real SVT head

(either way, any decent cab where you can turn the horn off will do just fine to create serviceable SVT-ish tones with a sansamp)

Lol no joke, a compact 30 lbs. hard to beat for a price-per-watt though. Good tip!

 

[Al Kraft]

Separate note, I will say with the Sansamp's mix knob full tilt or near there, I've been able to largely override whatever head I've been using, in situations where the head is the DI source

I would expect that to be the case if the head's DI out is (or can be set to be) before the preamp and EQ on the head. When the DI out is sourced "post" preamp and EQ it's sometimes harder to eliminate the head's inherent voicing from affecting the combined signal.

I also think it's worth noting that's not simply an issue with a SansAmp but anytime you stack preamps and/or EQs on top of each other. There is a good reason that many heads offer a user selectable "pre" and "post" DI options.

One last thought is that when you want to send a signal to both an amp and the FOH mixing desk you can simply DI out of the SansAmp. Then either use the 1/4" line out (with SansAmp coloring) or use the parallel 1/4" out to send an "unaffected" signal from your bass into your stage rig. While that last choice may sound a little odd, it's worth noting that more often than not the sound you want for stage monitoring is different than what the FOH tech hears as best for the band mix the audience hears.

How to use all those options is detailed in the SansAmp manuals available on the Tech21 website under the "Support" tab IIRC.

 

[Al Kraft]

The best way to find out what you like is to play a bunch of cabs.

...and IME there is no better advice than this for most things one is considering getting whether it be a chair, a bass or a cabinet. I am often amazed at how I perceive something described one way by others as very different from their impression. No one is right or wrong, we just aren't all built and carefully calibrated to some NIST preception standard.

 

[walterw]

Separate note, I will say with the Sansamp's mix knob full tilt or near there, I've been able to largely override whatever head I've been using, in situations where the head is the DI source

?

that doesn't make sense; if you're using a sansamp as your primary tone, the idea is to bypass the head's DI and in fact to bypass the head's preamp entirely, by going into the head's fx return or power amp in jacks and feeding the PA straight from the sansamp's own XLR

(but yeah, sansamp blend at 100% is where the tone lies as long as you keep the drive knob low)

 

[Ptbakes77]

?

that doesn't make sense; if you're using a sansamp as your primary tone, the idea is to bypass the head's DI and in fact to bypass the head's preamp entirely, by going into the head's fx return or power amp in jacks and feeding the PA straight from the sansamp's own XLR

(but yeah, sansamp blend at 100% is where the tone lies as long as you keep the drive knob low)

You're right, but sometimes in a backline situation and with limited time in between sets, our sound guy doesn't want to switch over the XLR

 

[walterw]

You're right, but sometimes in a backline situation and with limited time in between sets, our sound guy doesn't want to switch over the XLR

tell him to suck it up!

in all seriousness, i suppose in that case you could make a project of flattening out the backline head's EQ as best you can and feeding the sansamp into it, but IME you're still jamming one bass amp's preamp into another one and that seems like too much EQ and processing; it might also take longer than just bypassing it with the power amp in jack and moving the XLR cable, especially if you do it yourself and don't wait for the soundguy to do it, making damn sure to put that cable back when you're done with your set

otherwise it might be best to skip the sansamp, plug into the house bass amp and get the set over with