What cab to pair with power amp, SansAmp DI?

[Al Kraft]

tell him to suck it up!

in all seriousness, i suppose in that case you could make a project of flattening out the backline head's EQ as best you can and feeding the sansamp into it, but IME you're still jamming one bass amp's preamp into another one and that seems like too much EQ and processing; it might also take longer than just bypassing it with the power amp in jack and moving the XLR cable, especially if you do it yourself and don't wait for the soundguy to do it, making damn sure to put that cable back when you're done with your set

otherwise it might be best to skip the sansamp, plug into the house bass amp and get the set over with

I've had more bad experiences layering preamps and EQs on top of each other than I have had bad experiences just trying to dial in the best sound I could get from the equipment in front of (or behind) me. When I go with just a SansAmp to FOH and/or and amp's effects return I typically get more pleasing results.

I also typically get the best results on stage when working with the sound tech's preferences even if it would not be my preferred way of doing things. As always, your mileage and experiences may vary.

 

[Ptbakes77]

otherwise it might be best to skip the sansamp, plug into the house bass amp and get the set over with

There's definitely some amps that I'm more familiar with and comfortable with how the EQ should be (svt of course, Aguilar tone hammer) where that's less of a problem. My goal is to more or less sound the same every time, so if I get the option I'm always going direct. It's funny cuz I used to not think about it at all and just did what you're saying with like a fender rumble lol

 

[meisi]

2 pre amps, cab sim and a cab. What could go wrong?

I thought the VT DI was the SVT DI in a box not the BDDI?

I've only used the classic myself. I did not like it with my Eden wt800+d410xlt. It helped my peavey 50w practice amp but never in the mix.

Nothing like the svt I had access to at the time. Maybe try ampeg DI for ampeg in a box, however.

 

[Azari]

I use an Avatar 410 cab and a QSC RMX 1450. But I put a Tech 21 Q-Strip in between the Bass Driver and power amp because I find that SansAmps need extra EQ when going into a conventional bass cab vs going into an FRFR rig as intended.

If you want to drive a power amp + cab specifically, I may actually recommend the SansAmp VT Bass DI or SamsAmp PSA 2.0 because you can switch the cab sim off on those, then use a SansAmp BDDI to send to FOH in parallel. I'm actually tempted to grab one of those pedals just to dedicate to using as a preamp for poweramp+cab type rigs.

 

[Ptbakes77]

I thought the VT DI was the SVT DI in a box not the BDDI?

I've only used the classic myself. I did not like it with my Eden wt800+d410xlt. It helped my peavey 50w practice amp but never in the mix.

Nothing like the svt I had access to at the time. Maybe try ampeg DI for ampeg in a box, however.

VT is still around and good, just ampeg tones. The big deal was that it had the mid eq before the bddi did. The bddi v2 does have a mid control and while I haven't a-b tested the two, I've read it can pretty much do everything the vt does and more. The selling point to me was the presence knob (basically a tilt EQ/exciter centered around I think 2.5kHz) which I like, vs the vt's character knob which is more upper mid (1 or 1.5kHz), which I'm not as into.

Edit: I see what @Azari said about the cab sim on/off switch the vt has. That might be useful, but I haven't found the built in sim to be a big problem

2nd Edit: after some research I think I'm wrong about the character knob. I still like the presence knob as a concept more. I have also used the bddi with my j bass for a more hi-fi tone and I'm not sure the vt could cut it the same way

 

[Ptbakes77]

I use an Avatar 410 cab and a QSC RMX 1450. But I put a Tech 21 Q-Strip in between the Bass Driver and power amp because I find that SansAmps need extra EQ when going into a conventional bass cab vs going into an FRFR rig as intended.

If you want to drive a power amp + cab specifically, I may actually recommend the SansAmp VT Bass DI or SamsAmp PSA 2.0 because you can switch the cab sim off on those, then use a SansAmp BDDI to send to FOH in parallel. I'm actually tempted to grab one of those pedals just to dedicate to using as a preamp for poweramp+cab type rigs.

Good tips. I do use an eq pedal pre SansAmp mostly for more mid shaping, and with my old pickups, cutting some of the boom. And good info re the vt and cab sim option, but to me the cab sim hasn't really been a big deal at least from what I've noticed. Cab sim is basically just a LP filter right? I like a darker sound generally so I haven't missed any higher end that might be getting cut

 

[Azari]

Good tips. I do use an eq pedal pre SansAmp mostly for more mid shaping, and with my old pickups, cutting some of the boom. And good info re the vt and cab sim option, but to me the cab sim hasn't really been a big deal at least from what I've noticed. Cab sim is basically just a LP filter right? I like a darker sound generally so I haven't missed any higher end that might be getting cut

I think T21's analog cab sim is a bit more complex than a simple LPF!! They'd have to comment on this though as I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough on the subject of circuits.

 

[Ptbakes77]

I think T21's analog cab sim is a bit more complex than a simple LPF!! They'd have to comment on this though as I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough on the subject of circuits.

You're probably right! I'm sure @tech21nyc would have a more complex answer as to what the cab sim does on a technical level, although I'm also wondering on a subjective level what that sounds like in practice. I also think they would defer to their technical manual as to this whole question, i.e. this is designed for FOH systems etc.

So far with your advice and others, I would be inclined to look for a FRFR speaker or barring that, a cab with a more or less flat response, while ultimately still relying on DI when possible

 

[Clark Westfield]

I run a Tech 21 VT500 amp through a Hartke HD 210 and I get pretty good results simulating the Ampeg sound.

It doesn't sound like an 810, but it does have that SVT,

tubey sound that everybody loves.

 

[Ptbakes77]

I run a Tech 21 VT500 amp through a Hartke HD 210 and I get pretty good results simulating the Ampeg sound.

It doesn't sound like an 810, but it does have that SVT,View attachment 7110392 tubey sound that everybody loves.

That is nice, I've never seen a tech 21 head before! And yea, I'm not a perfectionist when it comes to this stuff, the fat tube setting is pretty much all I've been looking for. My favorite recorded bass tones are either svts or better yet low wattage flip tops, but I'm just trying to get loud without dropping several gs lol

 

[meisi]

Edit: I see what @Azari said about the cab sim on/off switch the vt has. That might be useful, but I haven't found the built in sim to be a big problem

IME cab sim through a cab can sound ok while practicing at low volume but does weird things in a mix and at louder levels.

I used to enjoy practice with the but always ended up disabled for band settings and volumes through either of my amps.

YMMV but I think this is why the bddi has such a mixed history

 

[Azari]

I like to use an FRFR speaker onstage for self monitoring and rely on FOH for the rest of the sound. So I've been fine with using a SansAmp cab sim. My 410 rig is just too dang heavy lol…. I practice through an FRFR speaker at home too. I would only bring my 410 cab to a venue if their PA system seriously sucked.

 

[tech21nyc]

The analog cab sim in our products is tuned for each product . It's more than just a simple LP/HP filter. It is not the same as an IR and has no time or phase components. It's a fairly mild and flat EQ curve by comparison to an IR and can be used for direct recording as well as through a traditional speaker cab.

When using into a traditional bass amp it works best if the tone controls on the amp are set flat and the amp is also not distorted. It's the EQ of the host amp that will sometimes "fight" with the speaker emulation not the speaker itself.

 

[Ptbakes77]

The analog cab sim in our products is tuned for each product . It's more than just a simple LP/HP filter. It is not the same as an IR and has no time or phase components. It's a fairly mild and flat EQ curve by comparison to an IR and can be used for direct recording as well as through a traditional speaker cab.

When using into a traditional bass amp it works best if the tone controls on the amp are set flat and the amp is also not distorted. It's the EQ of the host amp that will sometimes "fight" with the speaker emulation not the speaker itself.

Thank you! Good to know it is not an IR.