OK, not to get too deep, but… if you see a notation for a C7 chord, that is a Cmaj chord with the dominant (that is, flatted) 7th. A Cmin7 is a C minor chord with a flatted 7th. A chord like this C7 is commonly used as the 5th chord in pop, rock, blues, etc. A Cmaj7 is the C major chord with the major i.e., not flatted, 7th. Sounds very different. There’s also a Cmin maj7, which you won’t see very often, which would be the Cmin chord with the major 7.
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What difference does the 7 make in Cm7 chord?
- Thread starter sokolasty
- Start date
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
The lick has also F.
Now about the chord - the harmonic foundation for the melody.
The chord voicings add different "flavors," different mood.
It's about the background (the harmonic background) that the melody is placed in.
Sometimes, one can hear(see) a person - who is listening to the music via headphones- singing some phrase, lick, or just some vocal embellishments.
Most probably, that vocal "uhh- uhh -uhh" embellishment is so "perfectly-woven" into the harmonic background of the song/track, but...
We can hear only the person's voice producing something "strange."
It's because, we don't hear the background - chord progression, rhythmic pattern, etc...
Yes, we have the Melody - as a Human Being for example, but that human being needs to be dressed in clothes, or in our way, the melody should have some harmonic accompaniment.
Let's take the same melody - a person - and place it into the harmonic background - find some clothes.
How to dress - it's like a whole other country.
What shirt, what color shirt, what texture, what pants, chinos, jeans, what shoes, boots, etc...
The same thing is about the harmonic foundation - the chord progression - for this/that melody.
(N.B. We are not going to talk about a cappella.)
In your provided video with that melodic phrase, one could simply play the accompaniment as Cmin (a triad).
Another musician can play the Cmin7 chord (as in your example.)
I've tried that "lick" with the Cmin9 chord and with the Cmin11 chord.
What if a composer/arranger decides to play Cm7add(b13)?
What is some piano player decides to play the Cm6 chord???
The lick is the same, but the background - harmonic - is different, like a different dress style.
Now, let's change a little bit the harmonic background and instead of just playing Cm7, let's play it as Cm7/B7, or
Cm7/Dm7(b5),
Cm7/Gm7?
The lick is the same but the harmonic "clothes" are different.
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? Overall a good post, but I will quibble with this particular sentence.
AFAIK, the 7th is either major or minor...it could also be augmented or diminished but I don't think we need to cover that here.
A dominant 7 chord is a major triad with a minor 7th.
For example C Dominant 7 or simply C7 is C,E,G,Bb
You can hear it here: C7 Piano Chord
I believe the chords the OP is asking about are either C minor 7 or C minor (Major 7).
C minor 7 is C,Eb,G,Bb. This is a very common chord shape. Minor triad with a minor 7th.
You can hear it here: Cm7 Piano Chord
C minor (Major7) is C,Eb,G,B. I have seen this chord shape in the wild, but not frequently. Minor triad with a major 7th.
You can hear it here: Cm(maj7) Piano Chord
For an example of Minor (Major7) chord shape in music, see bar 2 and bar 10.
This type of confusion comes from not understanding basic musical concepts. It really underscores the value of a good teacher who will start with the basics and build on them in an orderly, logical fashion.
It also reminds me of when I was playing guitar in a band and we were doing At Last, our “jazzy” version based on a Real Book chart.The other guitar player, who didn’t bother learning the “jazzy” chords heard me warming up and said, “You’re playing the fancy chords.” I said, “No, I’m playing the right chords.” It went downhill from there.
It also reminds me of when I was playing guitar in a band and we were doing At Last, our “jazzy” version based on a Real Book chart.The other guitar player, who didn’t bother learning the “jazzy” chords heard me warming up and said, “You’re playing the fancy chords.” I said, “No, I’m playing the right chords.” It went downhill from there.
And… A minor chord with a major 7th makes birds attack their owners. With a diminished 5th they ignite burning everything in their path. And with a minor 2nd, the gates of hell open up.
All of that with just 1 chord.
He’s just playing the same exact lick in different keys. This is really more a transposition excercise for piano, where the notes are all laid out [ascending] from left to right, but the irregular spacing of the black keys means that one cannot easily just see a same lick in a different key — the player actually has to learn the notes involved. It’s not so much a music theory video.
On bass or guitar, in contrast, one can simply move a given lick up or down a desired number of frets and play the same lick in a different key. The thing is, on bass, you don’t actually have to know the names of all the notes you are playing. You can play a physical pattern on the fretboard and just shift that same pattern around. It’s as easy as falling off a log.
But on piano (or clarinet or trumpet or sousaphone), there is no "just move the same pattern up 3 frets" — you have to actually know the names of every single note in the pattern. You can absolutely do this on bass, too, but you don’t have to (depending on musical context — if you’re sight reading in an orchestra, for example, you’ll need to know all the notes). And when you move a lick to a different key (or play it to match a different chord in the same way), every note changes. And that gets a bit tricky, because of the shifting sharps and flats involved, but also because some keys are sharp keys (for example, the key of E) while other keys are flat keys (for example, the key of Bb), and so the same note will be referred to with a different name (for example, C# is the same note as Db. Two different names for the same thing, but the correct name to use depends on the key context).
The same exact idea shown in the video can be seen by simply playing a scale in every key. For an easy example, play an ascending minor pentatonic scale, might as well start with the key of A. The notes are A C D E G A
Now play the same pentatonic minor scale in Bb. The notes are Bb Db Eb F Ab Bb
Next, in B. The notes are now B D E F# A B
As an excercise, try writing this out in all 12 keys.
He’s showing the same thing, but with a lick instead of a scale. The point is the same though — to be able to transpose a lick or a melody to a different key on piano [or other many other instruments], you have to spend time practicing reading and playing in different keys. For players of such instruments, it takes some dedicated time and effort to gain facility with transposition. On bass though, if you want, you can simply move the pattern while knowing nothing but the root note. I’m not saying you shouldn’t learn all the notes involved, but bass and guitar simply lend themselves to using patterns, which makes transposing a lick to a different key a trivial matter
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Yes, it’s about the [implied] chord that the lick is being played over. As others have said, Cm7 isn’t a key name, it’s the name of a chord.
A 7 chord means that a note one whole step (i.e., two frets on bass) below the root note of the chord is included in the chord. This is actually more fully called a "flatted 7th", but use of the flatted 7 is so common that it is simply written as "7". If a non-flatted 7 (called a "major 7th" is intended, it will be specifically written as "major7", "maj7" or some other such specific shorthand).
So, a C7 or Cmin7 chord includes the note one whole step (i.e., two frets) below C, in other words Bb.
An Am7 chord includes the note one whole step (i.e., two frets) below A, in other words G.
An Em7 chord includes the note one whole step (i.e., two frets) below E, in other words D.
A G7 chord includes the note one whole step (i.e., two frets) below G, in other words F.
The point is that including the 7th in a chord affects the sound of the chord. A G7 chord sounds somewhat different than a G chord. A Gm7 sounds somewhat different than a Gmin chord. The same foundation, but with some extra sauce on top of the basic 3 note chord.
A basic three note chord can be called a "triad", but a 7th chord has 4 notes. Ex. a G minor chord is the notes G Bb D, but a Gmin7 chord is G Bb D F. That F is some sauce on top of the basic G Bb D triad entree and changes the flavor of the dish, err… chord.
Besides that, as a practical matter, it affects what notes can be played over that chord. The most obvious example would be that you wouldn’t want to play an F# (the major 7th note in the key of G) over a Gmin7 chord unless you want a very specific clashing effect (in other words, basically don’t do it). Even more practically, thinking of the fretboard, if you are playing over a 7 chord, don’t play the note one fret below the name of that chord.
Ex. 1, for playing over or outlining a C7 or Cmin7 chord, don’t play the note one fret below C (so, don’t play B; play Bb instead). For playing over or outlining a E7 or Emin7 chord, avoid the note one fret below E (so, don’t play D#), play the note two frets below E instead (play D instead). Like that. A "7 chord" means the note two frets below the root note of the chord is included, while the note one fret below the root note should basically be avoided
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Some typos in there- the flat 7 of A is G, not D. The flat 7 of E is D, not E..
Oh man! Thanks, you’re right. I don’t know what happened there. That’s stinks because it’s too late to edit and the result is now confusing…
To easily understand this have someone play an F#minor on a guitar (piano will do if no guitar) and then play the F#m7 immediately afterwards. The addition of that flat 7th (also known as minor 7th interval between the root and the note makes a big difference in the sound and feel of the chord. So yeah, play it.
In terms of naming the interval, the 7th is either major or minor, yes. But in the context of chords, you will very often hear musicians call a minor 7th a flattened or dominant 7th, because when you start saying ‘minor 7th’ it can sound like you’re talking about a minor 7 chord.
Yes, in this case, we are talking about a minor 7 chord - but I’m talking about a general practice. If I start talking about C7 as a C chord with a minor 7th then yes that is technically correct, but also open to misunderstanding (some may think the ‘minor’ applies to the chord, not the 7th).
To your other point, I don’t read the original post as referencing Cm(maj7) in any way, but I could have misunderstood.
Hours ago I recognized the futility of advocating to teach the OP correctly and UNSUBBED. Have a nice day.
The moderators have now helped me correct those per your post. Thanks for pointing those errors out.
Also, a BIG thank you to the moderators for helping me not leave up confusing information when that’s the last thing someone asking for help needs. Whew
If you google "Abersold Scale Syllabus" you will get a handy chart of 40-50 chord types and the many scales that you "can use" over each.
But I have gleaned from many interviews of jazz greats that "chord X = play scales Y, Z or W" is not how they thought, mostly
Their choices were guided more by knowing the chord tones and build a vocabulary of ways to navigate them that was ear-pleasing.
Sometimes their choices fit neatly within scale or key, but as often they did not.
I don't think a Major or Minor 7th chord would give the same tension as a Dominant 7th chord with a tritone. To me a Major 7th chord has a bit of "beating" due to the major 7th (similar to a minor 2nd) interval, whereas a Minor 7th chord is a bit more "moody" due to being in the minor scale.
I always thought a minor 2nd was two piccolos playing in unison.
In every example in the video the end of the lick is the minor (flat) 7 to the tonic. Since that note is present, playing a 7th chord over it is appropriate.
It's an example of our TB "reaction" to something that was not properly comprehended.
The OP has never asked about NAMING the chord.
The OP had a different kind of question.
You have properly read and understood the OP's question.
Another musician can play the Cmin7 chord (as in your example.)
I've tried that "lick" with the Cmin9 chord and with the Cmin11 chord.
What if a composer/arranger decides to play Cm7add(b13)?
What is some piano player decides to play the Cm6 chord???
The lick is the same, but the background - harmonic - is different, like a different dress style.
Now, let's change a little bit the harmonic background and instead of just playing Cm7, let's play it as Cm7/B7, or
Cm7/Dm7(b5),
Cm7/Gm7?
