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what do I need to break throught?

#61
The answer to your original question abounds in these posts. The most simplisitic answer is that you need a thorough understanding of sound, PA management, EQ structuring and a basic understanding of the physics of sound, in particular dealing with high level sound in confined spaces.

It's clearly not the answer you're hoping to get here. You might get the answer you're looking for, with less preaching and criticism, by posing the question a bit differently.

It seems like you want a new 'rig' and are unhappy with your sound in any situation. Please help him find a rig so this madness can end. We'll never force our viewpoint onto others not interested in entertaining the ideas.
 
#63
The yamaha P series amps could be worth a look. I think they're made in china which keeps the price down. I don't have direct experience with them but typically yamaha products are very reliable. A P7000S is a lot of watts per dollar. If you can find a used crest ca9 you'll never be short of power. Have you considered gallien krueger? I've only used their smaller rigs but they seem to go impressively loud for their power ratings. They sound clear and punchy and they're not boutique prices. I think you'll get all the bottom end you need from a pair of 410's and are more likely to cut through with a rig using 10in drivers. Over to the guys who play the big rigs at your kind of volume.....
 
#64
spideyjg said:
Sounds like y'all need this first if the drummer is the volume driver.

Jim

2003.12.15.drum.shield.large.jpg
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what we need :D
 
#66
G43 said:
Thats exactly what we need :D
Click to expand...
Or another more portable alternative could be a set of in ear monitors or headphones for the drummer?? To get him to play a bit quieter put lots of drums in them and turn them up LOUD. Invalid Link Removed are pretty good and go loud. They are low impedance though, some headphone amps can have trouble driving them properly.
 
#67
my drummer its just mad... when he records, the click in his headphones is insanely loud, so loud it really hurts, but its the only way he can hear it whyle playing. A few months a go he buyed special drummer headphones, the kind of small ones that fit inside the ear, and now when he uses it the clikc is not that bad, but he still is loud, the problem I think is that our rehearsing room isnt big enought for that drumm setup.
 
#68
Gaetano-first off, your recordings sound good. As most everyone else here has stated, your bandmates must learn to work together. Sure, metal is supposed to be freakin' loud...but the stage volume doesn't have to be. Consider investing in a good PA with subs and let that carry the load rather than throwing money at your backline. Run everything through the PA. Pay a soundman. Turn the stage volume down. The drummer will protest that he cannot play at a lower volume...he needs to learn more control. Try lighter sticks. Go to smaller drums (I know that won't be popular because of the 'look'-so go back to learning control). The guitar players will wail that they cannot get 'their tone' at lower volumes...not so...either they haven't learned how, or their complaint has more to do with the visual aspect of having the 'de rigeur' full stack behind them on stage.
Our latest guitarist showed up with only half of one of his JCM stacks-he has several full stacks-and he couldn't get his tone without being buried by some much smaller amps with PA support. That only lasted one gig. He picked up a Fender Pro Jr.(what a switch!) and goes through the PA. He can make ears bleed in the audience (but he doesn't...he really is a nice guy:D ) Yet the stage volume is balanced. Every bandmember can hear everyone else...everywhere on the stage.
I know that part of the deal with metal is the 'show'...no self respecting artist can be seen with some dinky little amp behind them...make some 'dummy' cabinets-big name tours reportedly have done just that for years. Get the look. Get the sound. Protect your hearing.

Just my .02

Kim
 
#69
Well, I once had the same problem as you....

One of the best amps I have heard both volume wise and sound quality wise is the Mesa 400 +...Yea I may be a bit biased, because I bought the thing, but it really does sound very good.

Definitely worth a look into.

I was playing through an SVT III Pro for a while, but I had the same problems as you...Cutting through the mix, while retaining sound quality and whatnot.

Im telling you, this amp is loud enough for anything. I play in a band with 3 guitarists, and a keyboardist. As well as a drumset. Each of the guitarists had all tube amps: a Carvin, a 5150, and a Splawn modded marshall (loudest thing on this earth)....Now, over all of this, they were telling ME I had to turn down...Funny thing is, I agreed, I was killing them volume wise.

Very good, loud amp...Depends on what sound your going for though....The Mesa can actually be very clean, however, at very high levels, (such as what I was playing at at the mometnt) It starts to get rather "raunchy"...

But definitely look into it...There are also some other very good choices out there, but theres my 2 cents.
 
#70
Rok51 all what you say is right, but the reason why we will never invest in a PA is our enviroment, the metal scene in my country, Spain, this has nothing to do with USA, you almost NEVER play in a proper stage, you are lucky if the sound guy has ever heard to a any other metal bands, and most of gigs are pubs and medium clubs, nothing big, so mostly youll be playing trough your amps, and a small PA for the vocals. Drumms just like they are, no mics need, as my drummer isnt a usual drummer, he plays always as loud as he can, which is quite impressive but only sounds good in outdoor venues or big clubs, he plays a tama huge setup (24x20 bassdrumm kit ) and with carbon sticks, theonly one that last more than one entire song. im not sayiing that that is cool, or that he is an amazing drummer, In fact I agree with you, he must learn to control, but it really rocks the hell out of a gig when he plays like that. Our solution is probably a smaller kit for him. About the guitar stack, Im sure two cabs is the way, one isnt enought to get that sound pressure that makes metal chest pounding. Thats why I need a powerful rig.

PD Ill check that mesa :D
 
#71
G43 said:
Rok51 all what you say is right, but the reason why we will never invest in a PA is our enviroment, the metal scene in my country, Spain, this has nothing to do with USA, you almost NEVER play in a proper stage, you are lucky if the sound guy has ever heard to a any other metal bands, and most of gigs are pubs and medium clubs, nothing big, so mostly youll be playing trough your amps, and a small PA for the vocals. Drumms just like they are, no mics need, as my drummer isnt a usual drummer, he plays always as loud as he can, which is quite impressive but only sounds good in outdoor venues or big clubs, he plays a tama huge setup (24x20 bassdrumm kit ) and with carbon sticks, theonly one that last more than one entire song. im not sayiing that that is cool, or that he is an amazing drummer, In fact I agree with you, he must learn to control, but it really rocks the hell out of a gig when he plays like that. Our solution is probably a smaller kit for him. About the guitar stack, Im sure two cabs is the way, one isnt enought to get that sound pressure that makes metal chest pounding. Thats why I need a powerful rig.

PD Ill check that mesa :D
Click to expand...

I respect that analysis ;) The Mesa 400 is definately a solid contender. Good luck! :O
 
#72
Power is only half the problem. The other half that most people forget is how many speakers you're playing through. More speakers move more air. You can put 400 watts through an Ampeg 8x10 and its perceived volume will be twice as loud as 1,000 watts through an Eden 4x10 (same effect regardless of brand).

For your practices, it sounds like you might want to try one or two 8x10's or even 8x8's (SWR's Henry the 8x8), if it's absolutely necessary to be that loud. The smaller speakers sound better up close and will give you more volume.

Another route you may want to try which would be less expensive, easier to transport, sound the same, and do WAY less bodily harm, is an in-ear monitoring system.
 
#73
PS - if you're looking for an amp...I got an Ampeg SVT2-Pro for sale which will solve your issues with tone.

Even though it puts out just 300 watts, it's the loudest 300 watts you'll ever hear and it's stable down to 2 ohms so you can add four 8-ohm cabs. Don't think it's enough? Ask ANYONE on this website.

PM for info if you're interested.
 

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