Double Bass What do I need to have two different sound settings on stage?

[Jason Sypher]

I used to have a Felix. It was big and heavy and I found that I really didn't use it except for blending a pick-up with my AMT mic. It was an incredible unit for sure. It just seemed like a lot to carry around on tour. What I ended up doing instead was having two inputs at my station, one for the mic and one line out from the pick up. I generally used more mic than pick up signal to my monitor (either a wedge or IEM). I let FOH do whatever they needed to do to get the best sound they could for different venues. The other day at the pub the lads wanted me to bow the first tune of a set (irish) and then come in afterwards. The sound guy asked if I wanted him to just boost the sound for the bowing since it was so much quieter than pizz. This got me thinking. Perhaps I should have such a device at my feet on tour so that when I decide to grab the bow I have a louder setting I can punch and then punch out when I return to pizz. Of course I can tell our FOH guy (this year will be Pete, Christian McBrides sound guy, an absolute legend) to bump me up if I pick up the bow, but that seems pretty clunky and sometimes I just get the notion to bow spontaneously. I am not a gear guy. I like to walk in, plug in and play. I don't really want to lug a Felix around the world, it's too big, too heavy, expensive and just too much. I don't want to eq anything. It's been awhile since I've cared about any gear purchases. What do you all think might be a solution? Thanks.

 

[JimmyM]

A simple clean boost would do it if you don’t need EQ. TC Mini Spark is a good one that won’t break the bank and is pretty transparent.

 

[tb-player]

Clean boost is the answer. But, it appears your sound person is more than capable. I say, let him mix.

 

[statsc]

The boost on the Red Eye seems pretty clean to me.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

passive volume pedal?

 

[Don Hergert]

I've got both a mounted piezo pickup system (and pre-amp) and a mounted mic (clear)... I'm sure these are much less expensive than your setup, but they work well for my needs. My experience is that arco with a piezo is tremendously louder than pizz, so much so that I have to turn down volume on my pre-amp when I take the bow out of the quiver -- again, that's with piezo alone. Maybe with your piezo system that's a different situation. In contrast to that, my mic provides a well balanced transition between arco and pizz, and that's one of the reasons I wanted a mounted mic.

I've got one (inexpensive) amp that has two channels and have experimented with both piezo and mic together through it... And on stage I've also provided both piezo and mic to the FOH for them to work out. My personal experience is that there's not much sonic benefit to using both at the same time. I much prefer the tone of the mic alone, but I will turn to piezo alone if feedback is a potential problem. Most of my playing is with acoustic stringed instruments, mic'ed, so my mounted mic fits right in. But for that typically there are are no electric instruments, no percussion instruments (with the possible occasional exception of a brodhran or a cajon), no keys and no horns; If there are, I seriously consider using my piezo system alone. I would guess that your situation is much more varied.

This is just a guess,... Mixing both a mic and a piezo can provide a more cutting tone to what might otherwise be a mic-only situation, although with both piezo and mic you still have a possibility of feedback But if your FOH is setting arco volume to the piezo channel, that might be where your problem lies. At least in my experience, the mic channel is where pizz and arco are well balanced.

 

[Wasnex]

I used one of the Realist Copperheads. Not the greatest pizz sound, but balance between pizz and arco was pretty good and tonal balance was also pretty good. I turned up for big band (pizz) and turned down for classical (pizz and arco). I generally did not need to adjust volume when I switched between pizz and arco while playing in a classical style. Playing arco at the volume level I used for big band sounded awful.

If you need a level change and don't want to apply EQ changes, you need either a dedicated boost pedal or a preamp with a boost feature (like the Felix). The boost will need to be applied between your bass and the signals sent to FOH. IF the boost occurs after the signal is sent to FOH, then the audio tech will need to closely monitor your playing and manage the adjustments. This is not very practical IMHO. If you are going to use a mic and pickup, you need a two channel option liker the Felix.

I used to have a Felix. It was big and heavy and I found that I really didn't use it except for blending a pick-up with my AMT mic. It was an incredible unit for sure. It just seemed like a lot to carry around on tour.

Sorry, but I really don't get your problem with the Felix. It's really not that big or heavy. AFAIK it does exactly what you need. IMHO figure out how to package it so it easy to transport and less hassle to set up.


There may be a way to to rig up some sort of midi foot switch that would allow you to manage a level bump at FOH, but it will be complicated and less likely to be reliable.

 

[LowG]

Eq pedal

 

[trevcda]

3.2lbs with a built in power supply? Hardly heavy and not that big. If FOH isn't capable or you just want to be able to be spontaneous, I don't think you can get much better than the Felix. Especially if you want to continue to blend inputs and have the notch filter available.

 

[Kansas]

When you go to the bow, just step on a simple boost or volume pedal for the extra volume you want at the instant you want it.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I used one of the Realist Copperheads. Not the greatest pizz sound, but balance between pizz and arco was pretty good and tonal balance was also pretty good. I turned up for big band (pizz) and turned down for classical (pizz and arco). I generally did not need to adjust volume when I switched between pizz and arco while playing in a classical style. Playing arco at the volume level I used for big band sounded awful.

If you need a level change and don't want to apply EQ changes, you need either a dedicated boost pedal or a preamp with a boost feature (like the Felix). The boost will need to be applied between your bass and the signals sent to FOH. IF the boost occurs after the signal is sent to FOH, then the audio tech will need to closely monitor your playing and manage the adjustments. This is not very practical IMHO. If you are going to use a mic and pickup, you need a two channel option liker the Felix.


Sorry, but I really don't get your problem with the Felix. It's really not that big or heavy. AFAIK it does exactly what you need. IMHO figure out how to package it so it easy to transport and less hassle to set up.


There may be a way to to rig up some sort of midi foot switch that would allow you to manage a level bump at FOH, but it will be complicated and less likely to be reliable.

It’s also $1200. I should have mentioned that. It’s a fine unit. I guess it doesn’t seem that heavy on paper but moving it around on tour for six months or more a year became tiresome. I sold my last one. It’s also more than I need with its eq shaping etc. like I said, I’m a minimalist. I usually don’t even use an amp. Give me a XLR and a wedge and I’ll play any venue.

 

[Paul New]

Fishman Pro Eq has a boost button. I know that’s probably not something you would use, but it works for me.

 

[Wasnex]

It's also $1200. I should have mentioned that. It's a fine unit. I guess it doesn't seem that heavy on paper but moving it around on tour for six months or more a year became tiresome. I sold my last one. It's also more than I need with its eq shaping etc. like I said, I'm a minimalist. I usually don't even use an amp. Give me a XLR and a wedge and I'll play any venue.

If you were only using a pickup, a simple clean boost pedal would do what you want. Using two channels to include a mic and pickup makes achieving the goal much more complicated.

Regardless of the cost, increased effort, and unwanted functionality, the Felix is the right type of tool. One of the unique features the Felix has is a separate DI for each signal. You might find other dual channel acoustic preamp with a mic pre and boost feature, but I think it's going to be a challenging to find one with separate DIs.


Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 341607]

A volume knob.

(edit after reading the post and not just the header)
I’m an idiot, but friendly!

 

[trevcda]

Maybe a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ Bass? Not the new ones, the older version. They have long since been discontinued but they're still out there. I bought my last one from Dave Roe's estate after his passing. Smaller, lighter (may weigh about 1lb), runs on batteries, power supply or phantom power (no additional weight!). It has minimal EQ and a deep knob that acts as a high pass to assist with feedback. The volume control is a pre DI so it changes what goes to FOH which their current offerings do not, but also has an amp out an unaffected tuner out. Can be had for under a hundred on reverb for a low risk proof of concept. I set mine up for my hottest instrument and leave room for boost when needed. Might be just what you're looking for. I find it a little fiddly to adjust volume with a bow in hand, but I'm getting better at it.

P.S. Now, I really want a Felix2. I didn't know about those. Thanks for the GAS!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

passive volume pedal?

Not for a passive piezo pickup. It would lower the input impedance.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

How are you interfacing the pickup to the DI now? Do you have a hi-Z DI, or just running whatever the FOH gives you? What pickup are you using?

I got my Felix because of touring without one and realizing I couldn't rely on the FOH for everything. BUT... I wasn't touring with a dedicated FOH engineer, so that's totally different. I needed more local control as each venue was hit-or-miss.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I'm always impressed at what the MXR M-81 gives me for upright. It's tiny, has a very usable DI, can run off phantom power (if gnd isn't lifted), has a 2.2Meg input, input/output level controls with high headroom (almost impossible to overdrive), a 3-band EQ w/swept mids, and an on/off button for the preamp. In your application, you could use it with the preamp OFF for pizz, then turn the preamp ON with volume and EQ adjusted for arco. Personally, I always prefer to dip the mids and maybe highs for arco.

It's an option, anyway.

 

[John Chambliss]

+1 on the Red Eye and its boost. (I usually have the opposite problem with arco being louder than pizz. But you're in a different league )

 

[Brent Nussey]

To me the problem here is that you want to boost the mic signal yourself without having to rely on the house engineer. Not a lot of products to do this, because it can be dangerous. You could boost the signal suddenly and go down in a howl of feedback, even if things worked right in the soundcheck. Also, you could be creating more headaches for the sound engineer than you're solving. It's very hard to know what's the right amount of boost yourself while you're onstage, to keep things even arco/pizz, or have a little solo boost. You are hearing the acoustic sound of the bass mostly. I've also seen guitarists fail at this, even though they are hearing their instrument mostly through the monitor, and so they oughta be able to judge.

For years I used to just send the mic to the house, and it created a lot of problems for me on occasions when the sound person didn't understand my instrument, or my sound approach, very well. So after seeing how a multi-instrumentalist friend of mine did things, I got a Felix to take responsibility for sculpting my sound a bit before sending it to the house. But yeah, it's a pain to carry, and I try to avoid it whenever planes are involved. Anyway, the point is that I kind of gave up on using the boost, even though it's right on there, when I'm playing with a sound engineer. Also, I often forget to turn it off when I'm done with it, since I'm mostly hearing the acoustic sound, and that's not too slick sounding...

Personally, if you have someone on the board you can trust, I'd let them do it.

 

[Wasnex]

Venta makes evaporative humidifiers with a hydrostat (look at the Comfort Plus Line): All Products in Comfort Plus Humidifiers - Venta North America

They have perforated disks that rotate down into a water bath. A fan forces air through the disks before it passes out of the case.

Ventas use an additive that is supposedly similar to the dryer fluid use in dishwashers. The additive does not evaporate, so you just replenish water every day. After two weeks you empty the unit and wipe it down. Fill it up with fresh water and a dose of the additive and you are good to go.

Every 90s you run the unit for 2 hours with a different type of additive that is made of citric acid to dissolve hard water deposits.

I run three LW45 Comfort Plus units in the winter. They were fairly expensive, but I am happy with their performance. This winter I set them to 35%. The fans run on slow until the humidity is 40% and then turns off. If the humidity drop below 35% the three speed fan ramps up.