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What do I need to tell my sound guy?

atracksler

atracksler

Oct 30, 2007
430
58
#1
Im playing a Sterling by Musicman Ray 35 (Active) Bass.
Im plugging direct into a VT Deluxe (Gain all the way down), which is going right into the mixer.

Whenever I'm playing at church, my bass is waaaaaaayyyy overdriven. I have the gain turned down to zero on the VT.

(If I recall, the knobs are zero, 3 o clock and the rest are at noon)

They run my sound through a ton of compression, so the house mix sounds OK, my in ear mix sounds like Megatron Farting, especially on the low B.

So, talkbass sages, what should I tell the sound guys to change for me? I keep telling them its way overdriven… what should I tell them to tweak on the board?

Thanks in advance, you are my only hope...
 
#2
They probably have the gain on your channel too hot. That would by first guess. If that isn't it, check your vt pedal's xlr output....it may be too hot. If it is, you can run the 1/4 output into any DI box that has a -db switch (unless the VT has one of it's own). Finally, check the xlr cable itself, though that probably isn't the issue.
 
#4
atracksler said:
Im playing a Sterling by Musicman Ray 35 (Active) Bass.
Im plugging direct into a VT Deluxe (Gain all the way down), which is going right into the mixer.

Whenever I'm playing at church, my bass is waaaaaaayyyy overdriven. I have the gain turned down to zero on the VT.

(If I recall, the knobs are zero, 3 o clock and the rest are at noon)

They run my sound through a ton of compression, so the house mix sounds OK, my in ear mix sounds like Megatron Farting, especially on the low B.

So, talkbass sages, what should I tell the sound guys to change for me? I keep telling them its way overdriven… what should I tell them to tweak on the board?

Thanks in advance, you are my only hope...
Click to expand...

Like sound guys are gonna listen to us (Hey, I was/am one, I'm familiar with the attitudes on both sides...:eyebrow:)

It sounds like your bass's input channel is being overloaded. They need a -15db or maybe even a -20db pad inserted between the console input and your amp's output. But wait....

Okay, now I'm reading your statement about the house mix sounding okay, but your ear mix not. You might need to check your ear molds, could be a blown driver in there. You need to compare your molds to another set, compare your mix to another mix, and so on. It could be that the gain structure is lop-sided somewhere between your mix and whatever is driving your ears.

One thing I'm grateful for is that the sound guys at my church are more than eager to help the musicians when they have issues such as this. I pitch in when I can, too, having dealt with these issues on my now-day job with a sound company.
 
#5
FOH sounds good but not your in ear, the problem might be in your inear channnel, are you using Aviom or something similar? I would suggest:

a) Check the input gain level in the in input module, Aviom and Behringer has like 3 or 4 different gains set up, if you get distortion in all settings then.

b) Try a different channel
 
#6
We had a this issue a while back using Aviom's. The Aviom input module had 4 input level settings for each pair of channels (+22, +4, 0, -10). We had to set the input level for the bass channel to -10 and move whatever instrument was on the other shared channel to a different channel. This helped, but never really completely resolved the issue.

We have since gotten a digital board that feeds directly to the Aviom personal mixers. I still occasionally hear an overdriven signal from the bass, but it is much less often now.
 
#7
IMHO, too much compression on the bass at the PA will kill the harmonics you're expecting to hear, and leave you with dull mush....

And yea, you have to get some pretty good IEMs to reproduce the low fundamentals... my sound guy typically had us use his Shure 425 dual driver IEMs but occasionally would let me use his 535 triple driver IEMs ... big difference..... if they have compressed or eliminated too many harmonics, you're screwed. $300 vs $500.
 
#9
Bredian said:
IMHO, too much compression on the bass at the PA will kill the harmonics you're expecting to hear, and leave you with dull mush....

And yea, you have to get some pretty good IEMs to reproduce the low fundamentals... my sound guy typically had us use his Shure 425 dual driver IEMs but occasionally would let me use his 535 triple driver IEMs ... big difference..... if they have compressed or eliminated too many harmonics, you're screwed. $300 vs $500.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's been good discussions on the various IEM molds.

I've had great luck with the 1964 Quads molds that I'm using now. 2 bass drivers, 1 mid driver, 1 high driver. $545 with the 60" cable. I have to roll off a little low end on my Aviom mixer at the church (the new Aviom A360 sounds SO much better than the A16II!), which is fine. My Stingray sounds awesome through them. I have yet to use them with an IEM system like the Shure PSRs or the Sennheiser EW300 G3s, but I'm about to buy the Sennheiser.

I've not had experience with the more-expensive UEs and Westones, I'm certain they are fine, too.
 
#11
Has your sound guy had a chance to hear what you are hearing? That may help.
I'd start at the board and check the input gain on the bass channel, then check the bass gain/pad settings on your IEM system's aux send or whichever channel is feeding you the bass signal. Lots of good diagnosing input in this thread but it does sound like a gain issue which should be easy to track down and either dial back or pad down.
 
#12
atracksler said:
Im playing a Sterling by Musicman Ray 35 (Active) Bass.
Im plugging direct into a VT Deluxe (Gain all the way down), which is going right into the mixer.

Whenever I'm playing at church, my bass is waaaaaaayyyy overdriven. I have the gain turned down to zero on the VT.

(If I recall, the knobs are zero, 3 o clock and the rest are at noon)

They run my sound through a ton of compression, so the house mix sounds OK, my in ear mix sounds like Megatron Farting, especially on the low B.

So, talkbass sages, what should I tell the sound guys to change for me? I keep telling them its way overdriven… what should I tell them to tweak on the board?

Thanks in advance, you are my only hope...
Click to expand...

I'd just tell him your monitoring sounds like mud and ask him to listen to it and fix it - maybe you need better earbuds.
 
#13
Biggbass said:
Has your sound guy had a chance to hear what you are hearing? That may help.
I'd start at the board and check the input gain on the bass channel, then check the bass gain/pad settings on your IEM system's aux send or whichever channel is feeding you the bass signal. Lots of good diagnosing input in this thread but it does sound like a gain issue which should be easy to track down and either dial back or pad down.
Click to expand...


+1 proper gain-staging is one of the most important yet most overlooked parts of live and studio sound.
 
#16
atracksler said:
Awesome suggestions!

My IEMs are pretty good (Westone UM2). I'll work with him, I may just bring my tone hammer, since I'm not in love with the VT… The tone hammer is much better suited to my ears.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I use a VT (and run it for a clean sound) and don't have any issues, but it's the pedal version and I use a Zoom B2.1u for the xlr.
 
#20
stinky634 said:
How about simply tell your sound guy what you told us. Let him do his job so you can do yours.
Click to expand...

FOH is easy. Monitor mix is tougher.

IF the sound guy knows what he's doing, he'll have a clue on your monitor mix... THAT's the divide. What you are getting is pretty strong evidence he doesn't. Test by using a real monitor to hear the quality of the signal. If clear, its likely your IEM quality, if not, its the signal quality.
 

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