I love the tone control on both of my Xotic basses, the tone control works in active & passive mode. A really thought out design, and very versatile. I keep my treble flat and use the tone control to sculpt my highs.
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What do you think of a tone knob that functions while active mode?
- Thread starter Nayatteu
- Start date
Every one of my basses (and future basses) has a Passive Tone control in the Active circtuit. I love it and use it more than the actual active treble cut.
Use them in conjunction - boost treble while cutting passive tone and you get an altogether different sound.
My next bass build will have an OBP-1 (2-band boost-only) preamp with passive tone control.
Use them in conjunction - boost treble while cutting passive tone and you get an altogether different sound.
My next bass build will have an OBP-1 (2-band boost-only) preamp with passive tone control.
I'd suggest you start here with TB member @RobbieK's excellent two part video on passive tone controls:
As you'll see, it's not quite that simple, because pickup inductance is quite important and there's a variable resonant peak at play, not just a simple treble bleed. In the case I'm discussing, the passive TC comes in front of the preamp, usually along with any volume or blend pots. This gives a different sort of loading scenario than a post-preamp volume control, which can be good or bad depending. It also makes bypassing the preamp a lot simpler, since the same volume pot works in both modes. Happy to go deeper, but let's start there.
Really good explanation in these videos, thanks for sharing.
- Apr 29, 2003
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- Contributor- Bass Musician Magazine | Marketing Manager- Trickfish Amplification
Im a fan, because Im often looking for ways to reduce the high end (between bright instruments and hi fi rigs) and the active treble cut usually performs pretty differently from a passive tone control. The active treble cut usually (not always) leaves the mids more intact, whereas the passive tone (with a standard/usual value capacitor) tends to take more out of the midrange resulting in an overall darker sound. On my IPA and Flexcores, the treble cut is perfect for mellowing out the sound while still being articulate with lots of punch.
Sadowsky had this type of circuit since 1979. if it didn't sound good, it wouldn't have lots of excited users like Marcus Miller, Verdine White, Will Lee and others.
if your luthier thinks that he knows better than those players and techs, he must really be a world-grade superstar. or just knows very little and spreads misinformation, which is more likely.
nothing's wrong with a passive tone control in active mode (well, except for it's not possible with some preamps with active blend). and with a boost-only preamp it's almost a must, as you have no other way to cut treble. if you want it -- just wire it.
if your luthier thinks that he knows better than those players and techs, he must really be a world-grade superstar. or just knows very little and spreads misinformation, which is more likely.
nothing's wrong with a passive tone control in active mode (well, except for it's not possible with some preamps with active blend). and with a boost-only preamp it's almost a must, as you have no other way to cut treble. if you want it -- just wire it.
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I play all actives and would be fine with a Tone control in addition to the existing knobs. But I don't miss not having one.
Happy retirement, Charlie! Some of us will keep hoovering up your priceless crumbs for as long as you care to drop them.
D
Passive tone + active mode = awesome
Definitely different than just rolling the treble off, especially with shelving treble cut.
I use both for different purposes, and using the passive tone in active mode helps retaining some of the vintage character in your tone, that you can further sculpt with the active EQ.
I use the John East Uni Pre in my Lakland 44-94. I use it like the two posts above. I find with the East pre I rarely touch the active tone controls and just use the passive tone control like I would on a fully passive bass.
I can't see having an active bass without a passive tone circuit available full time.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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On many instruments that combination lets you get into something more or less like Pultec EQ territory as well, with a ton of control interactivity. Mmmm...interactivity!
F Bass standard format on the BN5 is a 3-band EQ preamp with a tone knob. The EQ and preamp can be bypassed so it’s just the tone knob. I’m happy with this arrangement.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
I found the Nordstrand Big Blade singles a bit bright for my taste while using the boost-only Nordie 2 Band preamp, so wired a passive tone between the pan and volume pot. Not sure if the PT should be after the Volume pot or not however.....but it completely opened up tonal possibilities. Now I'm a believer.
As others have mentioned, this is the x-factor in the Sadowsky preamp in particular.
Passive tone controls do a fundamentally different thing to output, compared to an active EQ circuit. The idea with the Sadowsky preamp is to use the passive tone and the treble boost together for interesting results, and it works well.
My approach has been to roll off passive tone quite a bit more than you’d intuitively think (maybe 80% of knob travel) and boost the treble about 25% of the knob travel. Of course those choices combine with the tone characteristics of the bass itself and might not work for others. For me that provided to active J tone I wanted.
Passive tone controls do a fundamentally different thing to output, compared to an active EQ circuit. The idea with the Sadowsky preamp is to use the passive tone and the treble boost together for interesting results, and it works well.
My approach has been to roll off passive tone quite a bit more than you’d intuitively think (maybe 80% of knob travel) and boost the treble about 25% of the knob travel. Of course those choices combine with the tone characteristics of the bass itself and might not work for others. For me that provided to active J tone I wanted.
As noted already, Sadowsky VTC preamp, John East preamps, the Sire Marcus Miller basses, even the Squier Contemporary line do this, and I'm sure there's more that I missed.
I really like using it on my Sadowsky as I can kill a lot of the string/fret noise with the tone control but then boost the treble back into my sound.
I really like using it on my Sadowsky as I can kill a lot of the string/fret noise with the tone control but then boost the treble back into my sound.
You can attach the tone to either the input or output lug of the volume, it will only make a difference when you turn the volume down- if the tone is attached to the input lug then turning down the volume will result in a darker tone, if attached to the output then turning down the volume will generally give a brighter tone but the tone control will now also have more affect on the output (turning it down will cut more overall output). Both approaches have trade offs!
You can have a tone with an active blend preamp, the tone control just has to be a dual gang pot with dual capacitors that keeps the two pickup signals independent- John East had this option on some of his preamps.
IMHO it's been popular among those in the know, and slowly gaining for a reason.
No onboard active EQ I've tried provides the same simple but highly relevant function of a good passive tone circuit. But active has its uses, so I'm all in favor of including both. (That's saying a lot for me; I despise unnecessary complications.)
My Roscoe Century Standard Plus has passive tone in conjunction with 2-band boost-only active EQ (Aguilar OBP-1). I find the two work very nicely together. For old school / Motown, the treble boost is effectively negated by the tone knob while the bass boost adds some very addictive low end thickening. Just crank the tone to come back to "modern".
No onboard active EQ I've tried provides the same simple but highly relevant function of a good passive tone circuit. But active has its uses, so I'm all in favor of including both. (That's saying a lot for me; I despise unnecessary complications.)
My Roscoe Century Standard Plus has passive tone in conjunction with 2-band boost-only active EQ (Aguilar OBP-1). I find the two work very nicely together. For old school / Motown, the treble boost is effectively negated by the tone knob while the bass boost adds some very addictive low end thickening. Just crank the tone to come back to "modern".
Agreed. Personally I have no issue with the idea of active EQ onboard a bass, but for my taste I’d rather run the bass passive, shape the output with the tone control and my right hand, and EQ it outboard.
That said, active preamps are fun and I can see why people dig them. A few of them are tuned very deliberately to deliver a tone the instrument is known for, especially Music Man preamps.
