What does a bypass looper do?

[Bryan R. Tyler]

It's my understanding that the Dry Outs of the two EHX pedals are always carrying signal, regardless of what's "on." The Drys are not part of the Bypass Looper and therefore should not have to be on...

I know for a fact that if I even completely remove power from my Enigma, it still carries signal down the chain.

If loop 1 isn't on, then there will be no signal going into the Micro POG to go out of the dry out. Bypass loopers COMPLETELY bypass the pedal if the loop isn't turned on.

 

[Jared Lash]

I could be wrong, but that setup looks like it will create several problems.

1) You'd never be able to use the SYB by itself. Well, I shouldn't say never, but you'd need to have all three looper stomps turned on with the POG and Enigma off and the Boss turned on.

Also, if loop 1 is the only one on you'd only get the wet signal coming from the POG. I've never used the dual outputs, but my understanding was that the wet out would JUST be the octave up and octave down. Is that the case? If so, you'd get no dry signal at all without turning on the second loop.

You'll run into the same issue with the QBalls.

EDIT: Too slow (damn work getting in the way of my TB posting) and Bryan covered most of my points.

You may want to rethink this setup.

 

[3toes]

I could be wrong, but that setup looks like it will create several problems.

1) You'd never be able to use the SYB by itself. Well, I shouldn't say never, but you'd need to have all three looper stomps turned on with the POG and Enigma off and the Boss turned on.

Also, if loop 1 is the only one on you'd only get the wet signal coming from the POG. I've never used the dual outputs, but my understanding was that the wet out would JUST be the octave up and octave down. Is that the case? If so, you'd get no dry signal at all without turning on the second loop.

You'll run into the same issue with the QBalls.

EDIT: Too slow (damn work getting in the way of my TB posting) and Bryan covered most of my points.

You may want to rethink this setup.

I'm asking EHX about that as we speak... haha. But I'm almost certain that the Wet Out has dry + octaves since the pedal has a Dry knob for the affected signal. I don't think the Dry/Wet outs split those up. I think the Dry Out is just an all-dry-all-the-time out. And the Wet is your mix of Dry+Octaves.

Basically what I want to do is make use of my Dry Outs so that when I have multiple effects on, the Enigma and the SYB-3 trigger off of a dry signal and not a wet one (the SYB HATES a wet signal...). i want to "layer" my effects instead of them running into each other.

EDIT:

If loop 1 isn't on, then there will be no signal going into the Micro POG to go out of the dry out. Bypass loopers COMPLETELY bypass the pedal if the loop isn't turned on.

So then would a solution be to have a 4-loop looper and have loop #1 basically just be empty with a dry Send going to the POG and leaving that one on all the time?

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

EDIT: Too slow (damn work getting in the way of my TB posting) and Bryan covered most of my points.

One of the joys of being a nanny that works from home- nap time

I've never run both outputs from the Micro POG, but I imagine if the dry out is just a buffered output of the input as it's supposed to be, then it would work more like a splitter and the dry signal should still be output through the WET if they're both on.

 

[Jared Lash]

I'm asking EHX about that as we speak... haha. But I'm almost certain that the Wet Out has dry + octaves since the pedal has a Dry knob for the affected signal. I don't think the Dry/Wet outs split those up. I think the Dry Out is just an all-dry-all-the-time out. And the Wet is your mix of Dry+Octaves.

Basically what I want to do is make use of my Dry Outs so that when I have multiple effects on, the Enigma and the SYB-3 trigger off of a dry signal and not a wet one (the SYB HATES a wet signal...). i want to "layer" my effects instead of them running into each other.

They are still going to "run into" each other to a certain extent as the effects in a looper are still in series.

EDIT:

So then would a solution be to have a 4-loop looper and have loop #1 basically just be empty with a dry Send going to the POG and leaving that one on all the time?

Based on what you're trying to do I think maybe a parallel looper is a better plan. Check out the Boss LS-2.

 

[Jared Lash]

One of the joys of being a nanny that works from home- nap time

I've never run both outputs from the Micro POG, but I imagine if the dry out is just a buffered output of the input as it's supposed to be, then it would work more like a splitter and the dry signal should still be output through the WET if they're both on.

Gotcha. That makes sense.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

So then would a solution be to have a 4-loop looper and have loop #1 basically just be empty with a dry Send going to the POG and leaving that one on all the time?

Is there a reason you don't want to just run the Micro POG before the looper and just turn it on when you want to use it and turn it off when you want to just have a dry signal going out of it? That seems to be the easiest solution.

 

[3toes]

They are still going to "run into" each other to a certain extent as the effects in a looper are still in series.

But with the Sends not connecting to the next effect, there is no running into the next one. The affected signals all just go to the amp.


Bleh, I'm gonna think on this some more I'll get back to you guys.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

No problem- if you give a detailed list of what you want, we'll help. Some people use multiple Boss LS-2s or a mini mixer just for the purpose of parallel loops. I don't need parallel loops, but wanted the ability to keep an effect in one loop yet still be able to chain it with other effects when I wanted without having to tapdance, so I got a programmable looper. There's a solution for almost everything.

 

[3toes]

No problem- if you give a detailed list of what you want, we'll help. Some people use multiple Boss LS-2s or a mini mixer just for the purpose of parallel loops. I don't need parallel loops, but wanted the ability to keep an effect in one loop yet still be able to chain it with other effects when I wanted without having to tapdance, so I got a programmable looper. There's a solution for almost everything.

Haha yeah, and in my head, I keep thinking this solution will work (quick and dirty revision to my previous diagram, finished would have a master bypass as well):

In actuality, the pedals themselves would be far removed from the bypass looper. I'd prefer to store them back by my amp a la Mike Gordon:

So the pedals themselves would always be on. I'd just be using the bypass looper kind of as a remote switch to choose which I want to enter into my signal chain. I'd also like the convenience of having a master bypass.

The most important part is that I want a dry signal feeding into my other effects when I have multiple effects on. If I have both the POG and the Enigma activated in my chain, I don't want the POG's wet signal to trigger the Enigma. Added in with the fact that I'd like a master bypass, this just seems like the best solution rather than working with Y-cables and such.

Sorry this is confusing/frustrating... I've been mulling over this crap for a while

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Haha yeah, and in my head, I keep thinking this solution will work (quick and dirty revision to my previous diagram, finished would have a master bypass as well):

This makes more sense. The LMB would always be turned on when the Enigma is turned on as well. One thing to check on though would be to make sure that each one of the loops would still work if it didn't have anything leaving the send jack. I've never tried it, so I don't know.

In actuality, the pedals themselves would be far removed from the bypass looper. I'd prefer to store them back by my amp a la Mike Gordon:

So the pedals themselves would always be on. I'd just be using the bypass looper kind of as a remote switch to choose which I want to enter into my signal chain. I'd also like the convenience of having a master bypass.

Unfortunately that would be a NIGHTMARE. You'd have a dozen 12 foot cables running back and forth. An actual remote switcher, like the Wobo remote switcher+patchbay or the Voodoo Labs GCX system is how that would work.

 

[3toes]

The only way for the Micro POG to turn on in this situation would be to always have Loop 1 on (as you stated) but also have Loop 4 on, as you'd need a signal return. Turning on Loop 4 turns on the SYB as well, and I didn't think you intended on always having the SYB on when the Micro POG was on. The LMB would always be turned on when the Enigma is turned on as well.

Ahh, I see what you're saying. Damn...

Actually for the Enigma+lmb-3, that is intentional due to the Enigma's volume spike (like most every other envelope filter). Plus it lets me make use of some of the more extreme sounds the Enigma can put out w/o worrying about speaker/ear damaging spikes.

Ok then so forgetting about the bypass looper altogether (I can live without a master bypass), what are some viable solutions for what I'm wanting to do here? Patch-box?

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Ahh, I see what you're saying. Damn...

Actually for the Enigma+lmb-3, that is intentional due to the Enigma's volume spike (like most every other envelope filter).

Ok then so forgetting about the bypass looper altogether (I can live without a master bypass), what are some viable solutions for what I'm wanting to do here? Patch-box?

I edited my post as I noticed that the Micro POG would still work if you kept its out going to Loop 2. Like I said though, I don't know if bypass loops still function if they don't have a send going out of them. I imagine they would, but definitely double-check with Brian at Loop-Master.

 

[3toes]

I edited my post as I noticed that the Micro POG would still work if you kept its out going to Loop 2. Like I said though, I don't know if bypass loops still function if they don't have a send going out of them. I imagine they would, but definitely double-check with Brian at Loop-Master.

Well I see what you're saying about it still needing a return, and if, ultimately the Dry send going into the POG ends at the SYB-3, that would have to be turned on as well to get the return of that Dry signal...

Yeah, I'll email Brian, haha.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

As to your solution, a remote system like the GCX, a Switchblade, the WOBO set, etc. would work best to keep your pedals in the rack. Parallel loops or some other similar way of splitting and rejoining your signal would be best in order to keep a clean signal going into the Enigma and the SYB and still being able to stack them.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Well I see what you're saying about it still needing a return, and if, ultimately the Dry send going into the POG ends at the SYB-3, that would have to be turned on as well to get the return of that Dry signal...

Yeah, I'll email Brian, haha.

Yeah- if Loop 1 is on, then it has to come back somewhere along the line or there'd be no signal

 

[3toes]

As to your solution, a remote system like the GCX, a Switchblade, the WOBO set, etc. would work best to keep your pedals in the rack. Parallel loops or some other similar way of splitting and rejoining your signal would be best in order to keep a clean signal going into the Enigma and the SYB and still being able to stack them.

Alright, thanks for the help. Man if this stuff doesn't give me the biggest headache.

The things we do for tone...

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Actually your solution could be pretty easy considered the small number of pedals you have. You need to find a way to split your signal three ways, which wouldn't be too tough to find a solution for if not for wanting to get them in your rack. The Sound Sculpture Switchblade will let you rackmount them and I believe will let you run them all in series or parallel. It's fairly pricey though.

 

[3toes]

I guess the only other solution would be to have it with those 4 loops, and instead of a master bypass, more of a channel selection. That is, have the looper on one channel, and my completely dry signal on the other. So in the looper #1 + <whatever else I want running> can always be on, and I can toggle the channel back and forth to go from Clean to Effects, instead of having to hunt buttons and always make sure that #1 + <another> is always on.

 

[3toes]

Actually your solution could be pretty easy considered the small number of pedals you have. You need to find a way to split your signal three ways, which wouldn't be too tough to find a solution for if not for wanting to get them in your rack. The Sound Sculpture Switchblade will let you rackmount them and I believe will let you run them all in series or parallel. It's fairly pricey though.

Well the rackmount thing is really secondary... I'd like to figure out the Dry-feed part first