What does an authentic Jazz bass really sound like? Small rant warning.

[jbhaugh]

Fender has released dozens of iterations of the Jazz Bass, with varying electronics schemes, both active and passive, loaded with many variations on the Jazz pickup set. Are these not Jazz basses? And before you give me that “but it wasn’t Leo …”, take a look at this Leo nugget right here:

 

[scuzzy]

I don't like jazz basses because they are scooped and can't cut through the mix........

 

[Michael Milner]

Speaking personally, Jaco has my favourite "Jazz Bass" sound, with John Paul Jones a close second.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

(SNIP) ... After all these years yes people are going to modify them to what they want. That is totally cool with me, you just can’t call it a Jazz bass anymore.

I swear, I am not normally a "snob", but this touches on an issue I have with the way people throw terms around, here.

I have one of these:
Ibanez Standard RGB300 Bass Guitar - Black Flat
and I would never refer to it as a "P/J".

I would refer to it as a "Reverse P/J pick-up configuration" bass.

First and foremost, the wrong name is on the headstock.

Conversely, I own an old Epiphone AccuBass. It is configured like A 7ender P-Bass and it sounds exactly like my '79 P-Bass, but I still wouldn't call it a "P-Bass".

 

[SoulReflection]

Van Gogh was a visual artist - he cut off an ear - no great loss to his career. Yes, a bad choice for anyone, but in a career sense, logical. We're musicians - were not gonna cut off our ears. Watch your eyes.....

Which one...the one I am blind in or the one I can't see out of?

 

[micguy]

At the fundamental level, it's how tone is made on a Precision, and how it's made on a Jazz, and while it has to do with pickups, it's the difference in using one pickup vs. two, not stock vs. aftermarket installs.

Here's some data to show what's going on. I've done the Physics, and this plot shows you frequency response, on an A string (the response is the same shape, but things are at different frequencies on each string) for one pickup (a 'P" - the green curve) and two (A "J" with both pickups at equal volumes - the red curve). This is just the response dup to positions - if you include electrical stuff there is a peak in the high mids, and the high end rolls off, but the comb filtering is still very much there:

 

[fhm555]

The thing I’ve always preferred in a J, besides the slim neck, is the endless possibilities it provides. I have a Highway 1 jazz that is off the shelf stock except for string brand and I love the way it sounds. I’ve also got a couple MIM Jazz basses with aftermarket humbuckers and both have unique sounds I also love. i do this for a few reasons, first, is I prefer to play a single layout and that became a jazz because i played one 3~5 nights a week for about ten years. It was active and could produce any bass tone I needed. Later I started playing standard Jazz basses and wanted the same vesatility, but no matter which aftermarket preamp I tried, none could deliver that same range without too many knobs and switches. I wound up trying some different passive pickups and found two I liked, but more importantly, were better fits for things the single coil bass could cover, but not as well.
what led me to the Jazz was running up on the limitations of a stock P bass. I was covering country, rock, blues, and hillbilly string band and the P would work for them all but it didn’t really carry its own water in certain situations. The active jazz covered them all back in the day and the three passive js I have now will more than get that same job done. I’ve occasionally tried Ps both passive and active over the years and when they work, they work really well but I don’t care for their output on most of what I play these days. I’m sure it’s me, but the why is not as important as the delivery of the goods I want from a bass. I’ve still got that active bass in case I need to go back to a swiss army knife rig, but I’ve been happy enough with the three standard Js to keep on using them.

 

[Chris Wilke]

But I know, as a part-time gentleman and scholar, that would be rude of me. So I won’t say that….

I am totally going to use this...hope that's OK!

 

[Roger W]

So switching out the pickups and bridge is making it no longer a Jazz bass? i think you are losing me here. Those are the most common mods folks make to a stock Jazz.

The mod I make is lightweight tuners to lose half a pound and positively impact balance.

 

[SunByrne]

Weird question/rant.

I own two jazz basses. I did, in fact, replace the pickups on one of them, but that's because (a) they were cheap pickups on an otherwise completely fine bass and (b) I wanted to learn how to do it. Oh, and the replacement pickups (DiMarzio Model Js) were on sale. Very happy with the result. As my uncle put it, "well, it doesn't sound like a cheap bass anymore."

The other jazz bass I own hasn't been modified nor do I have any plans to modify it—sounds great as it is.

 

[21Pastorius12]

Never ever modified any of my Jazz basses and I never would, I couldn't bring myself to ever do that, I would feel I had committed a crime!!! I am happy with the performance I get out of my Jazz Bass, but I have noticed as you say.... that many seem to feel the need to change something.

 

[Blues Bass 2]

My two Jazz 5s are the modified kind . Nordstrand pickups and Audere preamps . My Jazz 4 string is a stock G&L JB . They all sound like Jazz basses but the fives get more tonal variation . That's it .
I like Jazz basses .
What's the big deal ?

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Without changes to your gain staging, all things being equal, I would expect a sterling Ray to outperform a passive Jazz in a rock band. The Sterling is giving your amp a much hotter signal with preamp boosted aggressive pickups, single signal from the magic spot. A Jazz would need...a hotter preamp at least...

Yep, gain,’tone, etc was optimized for each bass.

 

[21Pastorius12]

I don't like jazz basses because they are scooped and can't cut through the mix........

The sound mix for Rush In Rio concert was awful anyway, even Ged, Neil and Alex said they had no proper time to do a sound check that day because of rain and thunder storms that's why the bass sounds so "un-mixed" and the rest of the band.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

The sound mix for Rush In Rio concert was awful anyway, even Ged, Neil and Alex said they had no proper time to do a sound check that day because of rain and thunder storms that's why the bass sounds so "un-mixed" and the rest of the band.

I didn't think it was that awful, but I also recognize it's a little easier for a bassist to find some "sonic territory" when they're only playing with one guitar and a drum set. It becomes a bit more difficult, when a second guitar is added, even a bit more, when a keyboard is added and once one adds horns, I'm reaching for a "Jazz" type bass, every time.

With all the brass Neil used, he's taking up some of the space horns would occupy.

 

[eddododo]

I do not know how to answer this question.
Is a jazz bass really just a really good platform to modify?
If so why?
Why does it seem the Jazz bass can not stand in its own anymore?
Change the pickups so you get more of a deep growl. To me just purchase a P Bass.
Just use your neck pickup and it will be the same as a P Bass. Not even close in the real world.
You know what I am going to say; just buy a P bass.
Now it’s active preamps and 3.1415926 band EQ’s.
Can’t say get a P Bass for that.

So again what does a traditional Jazz bass sound like?
What is wrong with a passive Bass.
Why does it seem that Jazz Basses are not any good any more unless they are modified to sound like something else?
I have my power basses. I do not need a Jazz to sound like my Warwick.

I do not need a modified Jazz to sound like my trucks diesel engine, Bark like my Heeler or sound like the Flute in the TCB Band.

I apologize! End of Rant. Can some one help me with this?

Thanks in advance
Clayton. Now the Unofficial Mayor of Bearville.

so firstly- yes, a jazz bass is a great platform for mods, with two pickups in a position where solo’d and blended there are very good tonal bones. Most common circuit mods are pretty agreeable, things like grease buckets and tone cap changes and oddball stuff. If you have single coils or split coils or mod for soapbars or add an active pre it will still sound like a derivative of a jazz bass.. and the regular old passive jazz bass sounds great, too..

Unlike a P bass, the jazz bass has a pretty wide tonal array, while still being identifiable unto itself.. whereas a. P bass is pretty much either a P bass or a P bass with the tone rolled off.. and there aren’t that many common mods that sound good with it, and with a single pick up, you don’t have a lot of interesting switching or blending options.. if you make it active, it will either a) sound exactly like a P bass or b) sound worse. Where a jazz bass has a number of iconic tones, a P bass has an entirely ubiquitous tone, and as I said, the average diy mods just don’t flatter it at all.

but let’s get to the heart of the matter, the old-man-yells-at-clouds elephant in the room.

It’s hard to decide whether issue is that it’s weird to care as much as you do that people like a variety of jazz bass configurations, or is the issue here that your gripe about ‘nobody liking a classic j bass’ is almost entirely imagined?


If you are someone like me, then yes you’ll be modding your jazz bass a thousand ways, including going back to passive single coils in between every so often.. but being in a pretty rich music scene, I think I know maybe 2 other guys who are interested in mods and building while actually being good players on top of it.. probably 95% of the jazz basses I encounter are stock, unchanged.

 

[21Pastorius12]

I didn't think it was that awful, but I also recognize it's a little easier for a bassist to find some "sonic territory" when they're only playing with one guitar and a drum set. It becomes a bit more difficult, when a second guitar is added, even a bit more, when a keyboard is added and once one adds horns, I'm reaching for a "Jazz" type bass, every time.

With all the brass Neil used, he's taking up some of the space horns would occupy.

Yes you are 100% correct with the sonic territory, and I can definitely see your point! I feel so sad that we wont get to see this musician ship anymore my last was clockwork angels last time they came to my country.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Never ever modified any of my Jazz basses and I never would, I couldn't bring myself to ever do that, I would feel I had committed a crime!!! I am happy with the performance I get out of my Jazz Bass, but I have noticed as you say.... that many seem to feel the need to change something.

I have only modded two of the four I had. The '03 AV '62 Jazz Bass was ordered new from a M&P shop that I have been dealing with for many decades. When it arrived it was perfect except for the vintage-style reverse-wind Gotoh tuning keys. All four of them got very stiff feeling halfway through their rotation, as if all four key shafts were bent, which I thought was odd (that all of them were like that, let alone that any of them should be on a brand new instrument). I replaced them with drop-in Hipshot tuning keys.

The other mod I did was to have my repair tech (who worked at the same shop as for at least as long as I have been a customer, going back to the early '70s) route a notch in the body at the truss rod nut and had Pickguardian make me a pickguard from much better looking tort with a matching notch in it so I didn't have to loosen/remove the strings and neck to make seasonal adjustments to it. Sadly, the neck came with its truss rod already max'ed out so I lived with that for a few years until selling it. The bass sounded and played great (but with a bit more relief than I would have preferred); the TI JFs I put on it helped immensely in both regards, actually.

The other Jazz Bass I modded was one of the two 1972 Jazz Basses I had in the '70s/'80s. The first thing I did was remove the original 3TSB finish (that was quite a chore when all you have to use is sandpaper ) and give it a good tongue lashing tung oil finish. Then it got a Schaller 3D bridge, a slight mod to the control harness by replacing the tone pot with a switch to engage the tone roll-off cap, and a Rickenbacker hi-gain pickup in the neck/mid position in place of the original pickup (which I know I still have somewhere!). A longtime friend of mine has that bass, now; he got it from me in the '80s and has subsequently put some no-name fretless neck on it (IIRC, the original neck got wonky). I used it for recording a song of mine for an audio engineering class I took in college. That bass sounded fantastic, and still does so as a fretless bass. I played all the guitars and basses, and most of the synth parts on the recording. My friend who currently has the bass played the piano part in the last section and the swell guitar in the second section. A friend of mine played drums and finger percussion, and an old flame/longtime friend (sister of the co-writer of the song) sang.

Here is "Time Machine". Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott & Stephen J. Rago 1974 All rights reserved.

The built-in TB player won't play the whole file so I recommend downloading it.

 

[21Pastorius12]

I have only modded two of the four I had. The '03 AV '62 Jazz Bass was ordered new from a M&P shop that I have been dealing with for many decades. When it arrived it was perfect except for the vintage-style reverse-wind Gotoh tuning keys. All four of them got very stiff feeling halfway through their rotation, as if all four key shafts were bent, which I thought was odd (that all of them were like that, let alone that any of them should be on a brand new instrument). I replaced them with drop-in Hipshot tuning keys.

The other mod I did was to have my repair tech (who worked at the same shop as for at least as long as I have been a customer, going back to the early '70s) route a notch in the body at the truss rod nut and had Pickguardian make me a pickguard from much better looking tort with a matching notch in it so I didn't have to loosen/remove the strings and neck to make seasonal adjustments to it. Sadly, the neck came with its truss rod already max'ed out so I lived with that for a few years until selling it. The bass sounded and played great (but with a bit more relief than I would have preferred); the TI JFs I put on it helped immensely in both regards, actually.

The other Jazz Bass I modded was one of the two 1972 Jazz Basses I had in the '70s/'80s. The first thing I did was remove the original 3TSB finish (that was quite a chore when all you have to use is sandpaper ) and give it a good tongue lashing tung oil finish. Then it got a Schaller 3D bridge, a slight mod to the control harness by replacing the tone pot with a switch to engage the tone roll-off cap, and a Rickenbacker hi-gain pickup in the neck/mid position in place of the original pickup (which I know I still have somewhere!). A longtime friend of mine has that bass, now; he got it from me in the '80s and has subsequently put some no-name fretless neck on it (IIRC, the original neck got wonky). I used it for recording a song of mine for an audio engineering class I took in college. That bass sounded fantastic, and still does so as a fretless bass. I played all the guitars and basses, and most of the synth parts on the recording. My friend who currently has the bass played the piano part in the last section and the swell guitar in the second section. A friend of mine played drums and finger percussion, and an old flame/longtime friend (sister of the co-writer of the song) sang.

Here is "Time Machine". Copyright © Jeffrey P. Scott & Stephen J. Rago 1974 All rights reserved.

The built-in TB player won't play the whole file so I recommend downloading it.

WOW that's one fantastic track you say that was a college project WOW !! bass sounds absolutely fantastic, thanks for such a lengthy reply also I really enjoyed reading this.
I am guessing that the 62 Jazz bass had concentric stack knobs? I love those and I don't know why I do, I could never afford to buy an original 62 today though I would love one.
I could definitely hear a Rick-tone in there too which would be the pickup you mention?
By the way do I hear taurus pedals in that track ??

 

[mrjim123]

zzzzzzzzzzz ...