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What does "in the pocket" mean?

#41
The pocket is about 1-2-3-4 and all the 1/8 and 1/16ths and is not very definable. It is a slang term made up to confuse musicians and all of the above.

I know when I've found the pocket when I look around and I see heads bobbing, fingers drumming on tables and toes tapping. If the dance floor is full and hopping you've found the pocket.

My definition: Making the non musicians in the crowd feel your soul.

It helps when the band plays in the "pocket" as well (what ever that means).

Groove is exactly the same only different.
 
#43
I'd agree with what's been said already; just to add that you hear people talk about the "pocket" especially with funk/r&b kinds of styles of play. It isn't just playing well or with good timing. I usually contrast "pocket" players with melodic players. Chris Squire comes to mind; clearly a great musician, and impeccable sense of timing, but nobody talks about him having a "deep pocket." He's too busy moving outside of a pocket, creating countermelodies.

I think JimmyM's point about push-and-pull is important; a hard rock bassist may have great timing and be totally shackled to a drumbeat, chugging out eighth-note roots, but most people don't point to that as deep pocket playing either. Sometimes you hear it put that the drummer creates the pocket and then the bassist plays "in" it; pushing ahead of the drum beat or hanging back behind it a little, but still playing closely attuned to it, creates a sense of motion and groove.
 
#45
hrodbert696 said:
I'd agree with what's been said already; just to add that you hear people talk about the "pocket" especially with funk/r&b kinds of styles of play. It isn't just playing well or with good timing. I usually contrast "pocket" players with melodic players. Chris Squire comes to mind; clearly a great musician, and impeccable sense of timing, but nobody talks about him having a "deep pocket." He's too busy moving outside of a pocket, creating countermelodies.

I think JimmyM's point about push-and-pull is important; a hard rock bassist may have great timing and be totally shackled to a drumbeat, chugging out eighth-note roots, but most people don't point to that as deep pocket playing either. Sometimes you hear it put that the drummer creates the pocket and then the bassist plays "in" it; pushing ahead of the drum beat or hanging back behind it a little, but still playing closely attuned to it, creates a sense of motion and groove.
Click to expand...

Dude Squire plays some funky shite. Just listen to "Heart of the Sunrise":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z8_45duq6A

After the grandiose unison lines it has a hard groove. Or the stuff he played on EH in the UK by Eddie Harris. I'm still trying how he got that fuzz sound and how he got it to work.

Stay Brown,
Rev J
 
#46
hrodbert696 said:
It isn't just playing well or with good timing
Click to expand...

Only if your definition of 'playing well with good timing' is narrow and limited somehow.

How do you push and pull the beat?
How do you create a sense of motion and groove?
How do you Make the non musicians in the crowd feel your soul?

By having a holistic command of the underlying fundamentals.
Don't waste energy asking what 'pocket' and 'groove' are,
ask what the underlying fundamentals are,
learn how to practice them individually
and then bring them together in performance.

No need for circular definitions and woo talk.
 
#47
"pocket" generally refers to the foundation of the essential rhythm patterns of a song. To play "in the pocket" the rhythm section has to know the feel and basic rhythm of the tune, and play it together. Tight and locked down solid. It has nothing to do at all with chops, but everything with understanding how the song feels to you, and finding the rhythmical essence of the tune, and keeping that locked in your head while you are playing around with the groove.

For instance, there are many ways to play a shuffle - ahead of the beat, centered, behind on beat four, with a sixteenth or a triplet feel, etc. So the rhythm section should determine from the way the singer interprets the lyrics and melody, which way to play the shuffle. Using a shuffle as an example, a good bass player will know how they swing, before he or she plays a single note.

But, if you want to understand groove, begin with Al Green. Like "Let's Stay Together". Break it down into rhythm patterns, not just the bass part but the drummer, and understand how it all fits together until you know why that solid, slightly behind the beat, beat four, makes the tune feel so effin good.
 
#48
Here. Let the old funk guy explain it to you. Like it implies, a pocket carries something. It carries the groove. I define the pocket as the space that exists between the kick, snare and hi-hat. If you listen to the drummmer you will sense a pulse. within that pulse you will feel places to fit in a bassline. The outer boundaries of that thing you should be able to feel is your pocket. It's up to you as a bass player to come up with a groove that fits within those boundaries that compliments, accentuates, and even at times creates tension and relief with what the drummer plays. Some times what the drummer plays, makes the type of groove to play more than obvious. Some times you have to play around with it and figure it out to what works best. So in a nushell, a pocket is the holder for the groove. The groove should fit nicely in the pocket, and you should not have to force it for it to fit. Some pockets are bigger than others. The tighter the pockect the less busy you may able to be. Space and air in the pocket are good things. It lets things breath. Some times the funkiest thing you can do is pause and start the groove within the confines of the pocket. This will create a sense of push and pull by the adding and taking away of air. You can also play your groove right on the beat, a little behind, or a little in front of the beat which adds to the sense of push, pull and some tension.
 
#50
phillybass101 said:
Here. Let the old funk guy explain it to you. Like it implies, a pocket carries something. It carries the groove. I define the pocket as the space that exists between the kick, snare and hi-hat. If you listen to the drummmer you will sense a pulse. within that pulse you will feel places to fit in a bassline. The outer boundaries of that thing you should be able to feel is your pocket. It's up to you as a bass player to come up with a groove that fits within those boundaries that compliments, accentuates, and even at times creates tension and relief with what the drummer plays. Some times what the drummer plays, makes the type of groove to play more than obvious. Some times you have to play around with it and figure it out to what works best. So in a nushell, a pocket is the holder for the groove. The groove should fit nicely in the pocket, and you should not have to force it for it to fit. Some pockets are bigger than others. The tighter the pockect the less busy you may able to be. Space and air in the pocket are good things. It lets things breath. Some times the funkiest thing you can do is pause and start the groove within the confines of the pocket. This will create a sense of push and pull by the adding and taking away of air. You can also play your groove right on the beat, a little behind, or a little in front of the beat which adds to the sense of push, pull and some tension.
Click to expand...

Well said
 
#52
phillybass101 said:
Here. Let the old funk guy explain it to you. Like it implies, a pocket carries something. It carries the groove. I define the pocket as the space that exists between the kick, snare and hi-hat. If you listen to the drummmer you will sense a pulse. within that pulse you will feel places to fit in a bassline. The outer boundaries of that thing you should be able to feel is your pocket. It's up to you as a bass player to come up with a groove that fits within those boundaries that compliments, accentuates, and even at times creates tension and relief with what the drummer plays. Some times what the drummer plays, makes the type of groove to play more than obvious. Some times you have to play around with it and figure it out to what works best. So in a nushell, a pocket is the holder for the groove. The groove should fit nicely in the pocket, and you should not have to force it for it to fit. Some pockets are bigger than others. The tighter the pockect the less busy you may able to be. Space and air in the pocket are good things. It lets things breath. Some times the funkiest thing you can do is pause and start the groove within the confines of the pocket. This will create a sense of push and pull by the adding and taking away of air. You can also play your groove right on the beat, a little behind, or a little in front of the beat which adds to the sense of push, pull and some tension.
Click to expand...

This is a practical explanation I can support.
 
#53
sammyp said:
"in the pocket" refers to a pro bass player who plays in good time, not rushing on top of the beat, with just the right amount of notes to make the tune feel good! a player who is looking out for the greater good of the song rather than showing off his chops!

lot's of unfunny jokes being made at the expense of an honest question regarding music slang! lame!
Click to expand...

52e196e1_lighten_up_francis.jpg
 
#58
Back in the 70's when I started taking lessons by degreed music teachers, playing in the pocket was an "EGO" thang. I was told that you must realize your place in a band as a "foundation" player. It was important that you remember that the bass and drums hold the bottom, and are not "soloist", unless the band as a whole agrees to give you that space. Back then, playing in the pocket, or groove, meant holding the "bottom, or foundation",knowing you had mad bass playing skills, or soloing skills. It was a humility thing, unless the band was named after you, and Your soloing skills. If you were a hot player, they would always designate at least one song where you could stretch out. You had to be "professional", enough not to step on the assigned "soloist's" toes, or for that matter, the vocalist's,vocals, because the singer, cannot be heard if you are busy showing everyone in the audience, how good you are. SO FOR YOU YOUNGER GUYS, PLAYING IN THE POCKET HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FUNK! HeeHee. It means realizing your position in the band,and not overplaying, and stepping on everyones' toes, just because you've got mad skills. It takes mega humility, to stay within the lines of a song, knowing that you are what is holding everything together! Get it? It takes humility to recognize your place in the band and staying there! Having played soccer for years, it is exactly like playing your position, and leaving the scoring to your forwards!I had a record producer, tell me in the studio, that I was being paid for the notes that I did'nt play, as well as the notes that I did play! Now, lets hear the nay sayers! Plain and simple,"DO NOT OVER PLAY, EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN!"
 
#59
sammyp said:
"in the pocket" refers to a pro bass player who plays in good time, not rushing on top of the beat, with just the right amount of notes to make the tune feel good! a player who is looking out for the greater good of the song rather than showing off his chops!

lot's of unfunny jokes being made at the expense of an honest question regarding music slang! lame!
Click to expand...

Uncharacteristically, I agree with you. It took me a long time to get to a point in my playing where I had a good feel for the pocket. It shouldn't take that long for an artsy, creative person, but I have an engineer's brain. In music, that's a bit of a handicap, except that you don't ever need a metronome.
 

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