What, exactly, is a professional musician?

[CavilingCraig]

please tell what is a musician

Sorry, communication is harder through the internet, but do you mind explaining this post? I'm reading it as sarcasm. Is that your intent? If so, what did I say to provoke you?

 

[rollie 55]

To me, removing money from music has made a huge difference. When I slogged through bars, trying to make money out of it, we had band drama, we had bar owners who treated us poorly, we had small audiences. It was, over time, exhausting. Playing in decent churches, I play with people who are far more professional in their skills, attitude, punctuality, and we're all in it (with the exception of some of the paid folks) for the same reasons.

If money talks, in this instance, what it's saying is not positive. I'm richer in terms of quality of life, enjoyment, and artistic fulfillment from avoiding whatever it's saying. If other people feel differently, good for them, but for me, money ain't saying anything worth listening to on this front.

YES YES YES WELL SAID

 

[rollie 55]

Sorry, communication is harder through internet, but do you mind explaining this post? I'm reading it as sarcasm? Is that your intent? If so, what did I say to provoke you?

no its not sarcasm i really want to know

 

[dreamadream99]

I agree with the others: it's about a certain level of competency. But, money is usually the first indicator that you have reached it.

When I was in junior high school, I was a decent player for my age. For my age. But no one would have offered me any money to play for them. Fast forward to college. I was a pretty decent player for my age. And there were plenty of bands that did offer me money to play for them.

That's when I first considered myself a professional musician. When I started raking in union scale for playing a dance job, because I was good enough to do it.

 

[lermgalieu]

by definition:

noun

- a person engaged or qualified in a profession: professionals such as lawyers and surveyors.
- a person engaged in a specified activity, especially a sport or branch of the performing arts, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.
- a person competent or skilled in a particular activity: she was a real professional on stage.

Denny Zeitlin is a clinical professor of psychiatry in San Francisco. He's also an acclaimed jazz pianist with many well-received albums to his name, and he's won DownBeat magazine polls (look him up). Because the bulk of his income is derived from teaching and practicing psychiatry, does that mean he isn't a "professional"? No, obviously. Point being, the percentage of income derived from music performance is irrelevant to the definition of "professional musician." Not sure "professional" is even a useful term when it comes to music. You're either a player, or you're not. (However, whether you play for money or for free is probably a good gauge of where you stand).

I don't agree - look at the three definitions above. You can certainly be a professional without deriving the bulk of your income from music. It's all a matter of understanding the word and its function.

 

[lermgalieu]

it's about a certain level of competency. But, money is usually the first indicator that you have reached it.

These are two different things that might make one "professional" - competency and earning a certain amount of money doing it. They are not necessarily connected though. Also, I would like to point out to everyone, no one is a "professional" because they feel like they are. Those are also two different things.

 

[Slevage]

To me, removing money from music has made a huge difference. When I slogged through bars, trying to make money out of it, we had band drama, we had bar owners who treated us poorly, we had small audiences. It was, over time, exhausting. Playing in decent churches, I play with people who are far more professional in their skills, attitude, punctuality, and we're all in it (with the exception of some of the paid folks) for the same reasons.



If money talks, in this instance, what it's saying is not positive. I'm richer in terms of quality of life, enjoyment, and artistic fulfillment from avoiding whatever it's saying. If other people feel differently, good for them, but for me, money ain't saying anything worth listening to on this front.

That's where I am too.
Excellent players who are not professionals because we don't take money- if we did, that would be our profession, even if it wasn't full time.

 

[bigboy_78]

Just like the handy-man that does a few cash jobs on the weekend isn't a carpenter, making a few hundred dollars each weekend in a bar-band doesn't make a professional musician.

Professional musicians make the majority of their income from music and music related endeavours. If your first response to "What do you for work?" is "I'm a musician", then you can probably be considered a professional.

Talent and attitude are irrelevant……Sid Vicous was a professional musician.

 

[lermgalieu]

Talent and attitude are irrelevant……Sid Vicous was a professional musician.

This is not accurate. It is accurate to say that talent and attitude are not relevant to whether one was a professional under the "income" meaning of the word, but when using the "a person competent or skilled in a particular activity" definition, talent and attitude are everything.

EDIT: And you also might say that Sid's attitude is exactly what made him a professional ;-) (professional something, lol)

 

[packhowitzer]

at one point - my only job for four years was playing music. I was able to pay my rent, bills, buy new gear from time to time, and go out for supper, drinks etc if I wished. So essentially, playing music was all the livelihood i required.
I always considered myself a working musician, but the phrase professional never really entered my mind. just my .02

 

[Ellery]

This is a serious question. It has a lot to do with the level of proficiency in live music now, as opposed to the level of proficiency required when I first started playing. And I don't mean reading. I mean showing up and suiting up and playing solos in the correct keys, not stopping songs in the middle because you didn't like something, and just generally not being a hobbyist.

My personal contention is that the market currently pays for hobbyist level music, and that's generally what they get. So is getting up on a stage and playing badly but taking home gas money now considered "pro?" Because nine times out of ten, that's what I'm hearing on stages in my town. What's happening in your town?

Who cares? You get paid, or you don't. You're good, or you're not. Venues like clubs and bars are trending towards placing less value on live acts. Clearing the air about what we call a "pro" musician changes nothing. I live near LA, and have meant plenty of people working a regular job who are really actors that are just "in between opportunities". Are they "pros"? Wouldn't change nothing if they were.

 

[Mili]

We are talking about Art right!? If you make money you are a pro!!!? How about painting? This is another form of Art. There is many painters dead or alive who couldn't (can't) make money to live in a standard level.
According to most of opinions here Van Gogh and Paul gauguin were not Pro.
Nonsense.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I get paid, I'm a pro.
A PART time pro. I decided long ago I wanted a semblance of a normal life.

 

[Medicine Man]

My guitarist is a pro because he lives off our gig money but I'm an amateur because I have a different career as well apparently.

 

[faulknersj]

To me, it's someone who makes a living as a musician full time.

 

[MrLenny1]

Pro level- getting paid for a gig or lesson.
Pro level and making a living means teaching a lot and
gigging once in a while.
This is a dying business, progressively getting worse.

 

[troy mcclure]

My definition of a pro musician is someone who can confidently walk into a gig and know he will be able to play they parts put in front of him or her.
I would say that person should be able to read music and be just as comfortable playing show tunes, jazz, pop , country etc. I get paid for playing rock covers but do not by any means consider myself a professional.

 

[lermgalieu]

We are talking about Art right!? If you make money you are a pro!!!? How about painting? This is another form of Art. There is many painters dead or alive who couldn't (can't) make money to live in a standard level.
According to most of opinions here Van Gogh and Paul gauguin were not Pro.
Nonsense.

I think Gauguin and Van Gogh probably wouldn't give a rat's patootie whether they were considered pros.

 

[bigmikebass]

I've read this whole thread. I often have this discussion with myself. Sorry this is long, feel free to skip it.

When I was in college, I studied music. I never really knew what was going to come of it. I played many gigs and made decent money being creative and playing in a ton of different situations. But, it was never enough to pay my way through college.

I changed my major to music Ed and still played gigs thinking it would make my folks happy to have a professional degree with a job possibility. I graduated. I tried to make a living on gigs in orchestras, pits, jazz bands, steel drum gigs, rock bands, lessons etc. no dice.

I got a job teaching orchestra at a middle school. Have been here 16 years. Have a masters in music now. Making a living with a house, medical, and hopefully a pension someday. I play music all day long, and still gig a bunch on the side.

But I never felt like I was a professional musician. I always though that meant traveling the world, or playing for thousands of people many times each year.

I always wondered if I really was a professional musician, what that even means, or if I ever even knew.

Anyways, most days, all I do is music. Teaching, playing, conducting, listening, practicing...
But, I've never felt like a professional. Just happy to find a way to survive doing the only thing I ever felt happy doing, playing music.

Sorry for the soliloquy.
Mike

 

[retslock]

Pro = you earn a living from the activity. It is your profession.
Pro attitude = you approach the activity with professional standards.

Unless it is your profession then you're just someone with a pro attitude but not a pro.
Professional : of a profession.