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What, exactly, is a professional musician?

#163
Jewce said:
Not really bro. That's more like being a skilled musician. Like being a skilled laborer compared to the guy pushing the broom. You're still just a laborer. Meaning you have no trade. You can conduct yourself professionally. You can be quite good at things. But you're still just a laborer. Can't be billed as a carpenter, or mason, or electrician. Even if you're good at any of those things. Or, all of those things. You're still just a laborer. Not a tradesman. Meaning, you have no profession. You do many things daily. But, as a title, you'd be a laborer. A "Skilled Laborer" to be nice about it. A "Skilled Musician", an "Educated Musician", who doesnt play music to pay the bills, is just a musician. There is no profession there bro. Just like the guy down the street that builds a guitar every couple years. Is he a luthier? No. A Luthier is a tradesman. It's what he does. It's business. That guy makes instruments for fun. He's a hobbyist. Could he be better than most. Of course he could. Is he a "professional luthier?" No. It's actually pretty simple. And, it has nothing to do with skill level. A profession is business. It's what you do. Not, among the many things I do well. Not, I've taken some courses and had lessons for a few years, so I'm a professional. I have a few computer certs, among many many industry related certifications. I've been through many different classes and training courses. But, I've been painting consistantly for 16 years now. I have done pretty much every single aspect of my trade at least once. I'm highly proficient in my trade, and therefore it pays me better than anything else I could ever want to start trying to switch to. So what do I do? I paint. I'm a painter...professionally. I also beat a mean bass, can rock the drums, and can spit some pretty decent ryhmes.
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So, really... A professional musician can suck, but if he makes a living playing music, he's a professional musician. I was mixing up the definitions of educated and professional. As a guy with a writing degree, I should have known better.
 
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#164
Professional Musician - lots of qualifiers (and non qualifiers ~wink~) for this one...

I have earned my living in music always, whether it be clubs, touring, demos, master sessions, and plenty of production related gigs, in some shape or form, it has always been music related. I know VERY successful pros who can't read or write music. That skill is totally irrelevant to being a "pro" in many circles, and a complete necessity in others. I also know very serious pros that have a secondary income. I mean, if you don't tour or travel why not have a lawn service or antique shop or whatever? I've been fortunate to be doing this for 40+ years and I've known many pro musicians that have secondary "lives". Completely irrelevant...

There are many levels of "professional". Is a church choir director a professional musician? Absolutely! Your level of success or notoriety does not dictate whether or not you are a "professional", but your musical community does... The pros know who the hobbyist are, and vice versa.
 
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#165
LBS-bass said:
This question is coming up a lot in my social networks, so I offer it to you. What does it mean to be professional? Can you have a day job to make ends meet and be a pro? Can you call yourself a pro if you take a little money for music but never made a living at it? Are you only pro level if you've made your living in music either now or in the past? Does it require a certain level of practice and commitment? What does it all mean?
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dunno but if you say you are a professional it sounds good :thumbsup: :smug:
 
#167
buldog5151bass said:
I'm one of the two biggest manufacturers in the country (just little ol in my workshop), and I think I'm very good at what I do, but to me if it isn't your primary income source, it's a hobby.

You may think Gene Simmons is an absolute hack, but his music is his profession.
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One question do the bats make more than your other job?

Entertainment is Gene Simmon's PRIMARY profession, music is secondary, IMHO.
 
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#168
My mom is a hairdresser, has always worked in one of those salons with all the gals.
She has a friend she's known since high school that is also a hairdresser, but that lady works from home 3 or sometimes 4 days a week, still files taxes. Which one's the professional? Neither one can pay a house mortage on their own.
 
#169
Tampabass said:
Denny Zeitlin is a clinical professor of psychiatry in San Francisco. He's also an acclaimed jazz pianist with many well-received albums to his name, and he's won DownBeat magazine polls (look him up). Because the bulk of his income is derived from teaching and practicing psychiatry, does that mean he isn't a "professional"? No, obviously.
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Exactly. Just means he has a part-time job.
I know people who were limo drivers on night and weekends, and had a desk job during the day.
 
#173
mellowgerman said:
I would agree that it's somebody who makes their income or a large part of their income by way of playing music. There's also the concept of "acting like a professional" but that is different from "being a professional." I can act like a baker, but that doesn't mean I know how to bake a good cake. On the same token, I can be really good at baking cakes, but that doesn't necessarily make me a professional baker.

Separate from my take on the matter, according to Merriam-Webster, there's the adjective and there's the noun:

professional
adjective
pro·fes·sion·al | \ prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nᵊl\
Definition of professional
(Entry 1 of 2)

1a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession
b: engaged in one of the learned professions
c(1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession
(2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateursa professional golfer
b: having a particular profession as a permanent careera professional soldier
c: engaged in by persons receiving financial returnprofessional football
3: following a line of conduct as though it were a professiona professional patriot
professional

noun
Definition of professional (Entry 2 of 2)

: one that is professionalespecially : one that engages in a pursuit or activity professionally
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ANY Dictionary that uses the word, you looked up, as part of the definition of that word, should be replaced with a dictionary that doesn't follow this flawed procedure. Big Fail!

This does NOT include an example that uses the word in a sentences.
 
#175
LBS-bass said:
One of the reasons I asked the question was to get a modern take on what people believe. I know it has changed. I had little expectation that there would be a consensus
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That's cool - I don't think it's a bad question. I just think the answer is clear when you take out extraneous considerations. Skill is only part of the answer if you look at one specific alternate definition of the word. I am a lawyer, so I've actually spent a decent amount of time thinking about this in that context.
 
#178
This is not a judgment or dogma, and maybe wrong, but I think some of the other guys posting from a jazz perspective may be on the same page with this. To me, as a jazz musician, professional musician carries a bit of a connotation of education, equipment, and ability, and not so much about income. If I were to factor in income for professional musician, it would probably be hourly rate charged to sub. Not sure other genres are like this. Seems like some posters, perhaps from a different background would disregard education more...
 
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#179
CavilingCraig said:
This is not a judgment or dogma, and maybe wrong, but I think some of the other guys posting from a jazz perspective may be on the same page with this. To me, as a jazz musician, professional musician carries a bit of a connotation of education, equipment, and ability, and not so much about income. If I were to factor in income for professional, it would probably be hourly rate charged to sub. Not sure other genres are like this. Seems like some posters, perhaps from a different background would disregard education more...
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please tell what is a musician
 
#180
john m said:
Money talks
Everything else.....
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To me, removing money from music has made a huge difference. When I slogged through bars, trying to make money out of it, we had band drama, we had bar owners who treated us poorly, we had small audiences. It was, over time, exhausting. Playing in decent churches, I play with people who are far more professional in their skills, attitude, punctuality, and we're all in it (with the exception of some of the paid folks) for the same reasons.

If money talks, in this instance, what it's saying is not positive. I'm richer in terms of quality of life, enjoyment, and artistic fulfillment from avoiding whatever it's saying. If other people feel differently, good for them, but for me, money ain't saying anything worth listening to on this front.
 
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