What, exactly, is a professional musician?

[Arturo+music]

A Professional Musician is a person whose main career is in music with appropriate qualifications.
A full-time Musician is a person whose work is in music but not necessarily with qualifications.
Semi-professional musicians are those who have any sort of day job and play in music part-time.
Amateur musicians are those who have good jobs and don't do paid gigs. Most Brass Band Musicians fall into this box but they ARE REQUIRED to read music.

 

[Altitude]

It's not gray when it's that obvious, but maybe when it's not.

Consider this bio I pulled from Allmusic about a cohort of mine from the UT Jazz program. I redacted the name to not make it creepy if it comes up in a search:

Tenor, alto, and soprano saxophone player XXXXXXXX grew up during the 1980s in the Austin, Texas, area, listening to the sounds of the Marsalis brothers and other young jazz players like Mark Whitfield and Roy Hargrove. In sixth grade, XXXXXXXX picked up the saxophone, and by the time he was in high school, he was playing gigs around the Austin and San Antonio area. After attending the University of Texas at Austin and studying with renowned saxophone teacher Harvey Pittel, XXXXXXXX attended the Manhattan School of Music and later Southwest Texas State University, during which time he received the Downbeat Student Music Award for College Outstanding Tenor Saxophone Performance. XXXXXXXX's 1994 debut album Standards is a collection of straight-ahead bop and swing tunes featuring a team of top Austin area musicians. XXXXXXXX has continued recording in a similar vein: 1998's Kicks Are for Kids features XXXXXXXX with a team of stellar sidemen including famed pianist Ellis Marsalis, drummer J.J. Johnson, and Edwin Livingston on bass. XXXXXXXX tours widely and is a frequent guest on the jazz festival circuit, with yearly appearances at the North Sea and Montreux Jazz Festivals in the Netherlands and Switzerland, respectively. XXXXXXXX has been voted the top jazz player in the Austin Chronicle Reader's poll, and his group "Church on Monday" has enjoyed the longest residency in the history of the Continental Club, dating back to 2012.

Is this guy a pro? I think so, and he damn right plays like one.

If I told you he has a full-time job at Dell Computer, would you then say he's not a pro anymore?

Here's another one. Andy Irvine is a ski tech at Christy Sports in Winter Park, Colorado. He's also Andy Irvine.

 

[Altitude]

Semi-professional musicians are those who have any sort of day job and play in music part-time.

I can't get to where having a day job unconditionally DQs a guy from being considered a pro musician. Maybe in the 80s. These days the money end is too hard to make work.

 

[LBS-bass]

Quotes from Adam Sandler movies would be tough category for Jeopardy.

LOL, not a fan so makes sense I wouldn't know it

 

[LBS-bass]

I can't get to where having a day job unconditionally DQs a guy from being considered a pro musician. Maybe in the 80s. These days the money end is too hard to make work.

I think it's just the difference between what we think of as a career versus the behavior and ability involved in professionalism that a lot of people are mentioning. I wonder what responses we would have tossed out here if I'd asked the question "what is a career musician?" instead of using the word "professional?"

Some of us believe career=professional and some of us believe behavior=professional. Some seem to believe that training or ability=professional.

I agree with you that a career in music is next to impossible these days in most locales, much different than it was 30+ years ago. There are a probably a lot of us here who had music careers but no longer do, and I can get that it might be hard to think that you can go from being a pro to not being that, when your concept of pro involves more than just whether or not it's your career.

 

[BassGuyFL]

Wow 14 pages and we're still splitting hairs over semantics. A "pro musician" makes the majority of their income form playing music. That doesn't have anything to do with acting like a pro. Many do, many don't. There's been all kinds of miscreants and buttheads that got lucky and "made it." There's also a ton of people that aren't household names that make a living doing corporate gigs and tribute bands like myself that don't have a "real" job but make the bulk of our living off of music.

Now there's the other aspect of "acting" like a pro. You CAN be a semi-pro/weekend warrior/hobbyist and conduct yourself like a pro. Show up on time, know the material, be cordial etc. That's what a lot of pros do. I bring the same attitude whether it's a $5000 corporate gig or a $500 bar gig.

 

[eukatheude]

read a chart & nail it in the first take

There's several levels above that.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Right, because showing up on time counts, too.

Maybe they help break down the set afterwards, as well.

 

[Manuel Bass]

W

Exactly. Sid Vicious was a professional musician, after all.

For me professional means: be serious ( not boring) punctual ,respectful ,studious,keep your skills in perfect shape ,sheet music in the pocket,ear trained so if you have all this abilities you are a professional and you will get the money that your abilities deserves but money it's the last link in the chain IMMO

 

[rollie 55]

W
For me professional means: be serious ( not boring) punctual ,respectful ,studious,keep your skills in perfect shape ,sheet music in the pocket,ear trained so if you have all this abilities you are a professional and you will get the money that your abilities deserves but money it's the last link in the chain IMMO

who cares about all this professional rubbish. lets rock

 

[Manuel Bass]

who cares about all this professional rubbish. lets rock

Of course, I'm not a pro!!!!!

 

[rollie 55]

Of course, I'm not a pro!!!!!

and i bet you rock

 

[brianjfox]

I'm sure there isn't anyone who believes Charlie Watts to be the best drummers out there

Listen to Charlie Watts playing when he's playing bop, not with the Stones. But totally off-topic.

 

[King Kolon]

Here's the standard. Period. If you or your group have made the investments, both in time and money that inspire club owners or record producers or anyone else to offer you money to come and share your product in front of a live audience or in a studio, patio, garage or auditorium. You are a professional musician. Irredardless of how much you're actually making. I'm sure there isn't anyone who believes Ringo Starr or Charlie Watts to be the best drummers out there, however they've made the most money playing drums in the history of music. So although all that training and all have a value, that's not definitive of a professional. This business has a great luck and timing aspect. I first was paid to play age thirteen. And at age 64 I just made $900 for a New Year's Eve gig at a local club. So what's that?

So that's what Professional's get Paid. Without the Money Honey , you are Not a Professional Musician. Cut the Crap. Would you be an Architect if you didn't get paid? Come-on! How abut A Teacher, they get Paid. Don't see any Profession that doesn't get the Bucks. Rest my Case. KingKolon!

 

[jeff porturica]

I can't get to where having a day job unconditionally DQs a guy from being considered a pro musician. Maybe in the 80s. These days the money end is too hard to make work.

Listen to Charlie Watts playing when he's playing bop, not with the Stones. But totally off-topic.

So that's what Professional's get Paid. Without the Money Honey , you are Not a Professional Musician. Cut the Crap. Would you be an Architect if you didn't get paid? Come-on! How abut A Teacher, they get Paid. Don't see any Profession that doesn't get the Bucks. Rest my Case. KingKolon!

 

[Ostie]

Some rock stars show up late or not at all, unprepared, drunk or high, make outrageous demands, and get paid very handsomely. Are they professionals?

I show up early, clean and sober, have a good attitude, love my craft, have fun, and get paid peanuts. Am I a professional?

 

[gregbackstrom]

I was gonna add my $0.02, but after reading through the thread, I've decided I'm too professional to do that.

 

[bassmike2010]

I was gonna add my $0.02, but after reading through the thread, I've decided I'm too professional to do that.

Right. Deleted my prev post. Like the Mod sd after he closed down that thread: "Do not feed the troll". Peace

 

[Artman]

What is a horseshoe? What does a horseshoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?

Yes. Products - Sox For Horses!

 

[Ian Lewis]

A Professional Musician is a person whose main career is in music with appropriate qualifications.
A full-time Musician is a person whose work is in music but not necessarily with qualifications.
Semi-professional musicians are those who have any sort of day job and play in music part-time.
Amateur musicians are those who have good jobs and don't do paid gigs. Most Brass Band Musicians fall into this box but they ARE REQUIRED to read music.

The dictionary defines 'profession' as a paid occupation, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification. Whereas 'professional' may refer to attitude.