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What exactly is "tube warmth"?
- Thread starter mr_musica
- Start date
Agreed. My WD's damping is set High more often than not to achieve that tightness. A PJB cab favors that setting best as does a 12-3 SLT.
The more time I spend with the WD the more I appreciate the thoughtful efforts you applied to it. Placing a boost and/or tube pre in front of one takes it to another level.
Tubes, to my ear, and in some fairly flowery terms for this thread, lend an enhanced spacial quality, a foamy elasticity (sponginess?), and wrap individual note attack in harmonically rich envelopes.
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To me it's this musically cutting of the sharp edges and adding some fur to the signal. Like when you're coming in soaked after walking in the rain and someone gives you nice warm dry clothes and a cup of warm coffee.
If you know what I mean.
I must mention that I love the portability of my GRBass head and the pure sound as a canvas. But love to add my Eden Glow Plug for warmth. Best of 2 worlds from my point of view.
If you know what I mean.
I must mention that I love the portability of my GRBass head and the pure sound as a canvas. But love to add my Eden Glow Plug for warmth. Best of 2 worlds from my point of view.
+1 to FAT and Loose. Fat&Loose Could be a good band name for the right band 
Passive Jazz with dead-ish strings into a Cali76, into a Noble DI, into the front end of a Walkabout = wonderful warm, full, bass tone (IMO/IME of course)
Don't mind me. I've never tried to figure out or apply terms like warm to my amps, I just know what pleases my ear.
I hope the OP finds his definition
So if "warmth" is mostly about harmonics, is "voicing" mostly about the native EQ of an amp with all the controls half-way?
My thesis:
1. The term 'Tube Warmth' is valid ONLY to those who know what it is without the need of an explanation.
2. Therefore, the term 'Tube Warmth' is useless to everybody else.
To get to the point where the term becomes self explanatory, one has to have a certain amount of hands (or ears) on experience with multiple "proper" tube products. In a nutshell, when I say "proper", I mean a product that runs the tube at adequate plate voltage. There are those that include a tube for the looks.
On top of that, one also needs some experience with products that are absolutely not tube products - by which I mean solid state products that do not try to emulate a tube amp but those that try to embrace the strengths of SS technology.
....and in the end it helps to hear some faux tube stuff. Either SS products that emulate tubes or try to sound like tubes, or those that have tubes just for show.
1. The term 'Tube Warmth' is valid ONLY to those who know what it is without the need of an explanation.
2. Therefore, the term 'Tube Warmth' is useless to everybody else.
To get to the point where the term becomes self explanatory, one has to have a certain amount of hands (or ears) on experience with multiple "proper" tube products. In a nutshell, when I say "proper", I mean a product that runs the tube at adequate plate voltage. There are those that include a tube for the looks.
On top of that, one also needs some experience with products that are absolutely not tube products - by which I mean solid state products that do not try to emulate a tube amp but those that try to embrace the strengths of SS technology.
....and in the end it helps to hear some faux tube stuff. Either SS products that emulate tubes or try to sound like tubes, or those that have tubes just for show.
I think it is also about the range of tones available with said controls: you could have two different amps showing a flat response with everything @ noon, but each having its own take on mids for instance (1 or 2 bands, different freq centers and Qs). This would create two very distinct "voices" IMO, where one would not be able to do what the other can and vice-versa.
My response was to the post that mentioned the lack of bass amps in the Marshall line. This was to say that an amp need not be a “bass amp” to do the job with authority.
Slower attack and release of notes. Mainly from mild compression. Which some tube amps/products inherently do well. Maybe.
Tube warmth is due to the power draw...usually rated about 4 times the RMS output rating, so 75% of the power from the wall socket turns into heat 
Even better when they catch on fire during use, had that happen once with an old Bassman when a bandmate turned it on without a speaker connected. Now that was warm!!!
Even better when they catch on fire during use, had that happen once with an old Bassman when a bandmate turned it on without a speaker connected. Now that was warm!!!
First, I do not use this term when describing the tube circuits I use. I find it to be inaccurate.
But, this post has led to a nice discussion, with contributions from learned and experienced amp designers and players. Good stuff.
The term “warmth” does get commonly applied to amps containing tubes. Our amplifiers generally have two stages in them, the preamplifier stage and the power amplifier stage. The preamplifier stage is generally intended to shape tone, while the power amplifier stage is intended to drive speakers. At least, that is the engineering design intent.
Musicians, of course, take what the engineers produce, and use the amplifiers to produce music; which sometimes means bending the design intent.
Tubes are historically used in both amplification stages; because when we started with amplifiers, the transistors were somewhat of a twinkle in the eyes of the tech community. Tubes were first produced somewhere around 1907 in the Edison labs, and optimized during the WWI for radio to communicate with the vessels carrying supplies from the US to Europe.
Transistors were invented in late 1947, and not brought to maturity until the mid-60’s when we “needed” to put human beings on the moon. Note the similar incentives (hint: US government paid for both of them).
Anyhow, we use different kinds of the devices in the two different amplification stages. Preamp tubes are different from power amp tubes and same for the transistors. Tubes are not particularly well suited to power amplification; but, musicians have found them musically desirable for the power stage when creating “distorted” tones, such as recordings by Jack Casady (Jefferson Airplane) and Felix Pappalardi (Mountain), as two examples. Since this kind of use is outside the design parameters, the performance success is mostly empirical. Some work better than others. I would not describe this kind of tone as “warm.”
The preamp stage tubes are a whole different animal. Preamp circuits with tubes can, depending on design, produce the impression of depth in the tone vs transistors, which sound a bit more straightforward. I would not call this effect “warmth” either. The science behind this impression of depth is possibly related to unequal amplification of upper harmonic content; but, that is strictly a guess on my part. Since this aspect of tubes happens in the preamplifier stage, it can be found in any “Class” of amplification; since the preamplifier can be combined with any kind of power amplifier. The two aspects are unrelated.
My $0.019 is that terms like “warmth” and “Class” are not particularly useful; and we tend to confuse each other with their use. Anyhow, good discussion.
Remind me of summer 2021 when one my friend, a guitar player, came home to play with me: he used my Traynor YGL-3 and I plugged my bass through an Ampeg V4 and a Traynor YBA-3 (ABY pedal). It was 30 celcius degrees outside with a lot of humidity. Even with the windows opened, it was « too warm
That reminds me of taking my first tube amp (a Traynor YBA200) to band practice. Texas weather is usually hot, or unbearable...so it was rather toasty in there. Once my amp warmed up and was putting out some heat, the drummer is like "*** is making it so hot in here?!?"
When I explained it was the tube amp, he kinda retracted because he really liked how it sounded. He's my favorite drummer of all time
Thanks for the comment about may avatar. Having put that rig together 8 years ago I put it together because we were doing a lot of outdoor concerts. I’ve used it maybe less than 70 gigs over the years. The last 3 years? Maybe I or 2 a year.
It’s dated for sure, but is truly a great sounding rig. The Navigator preamp is incredibly flexible crammed packed with features, some of which I’ll never use (like the ability to biamp) although I do use the stereo feature when using my WT-1250 power amp and both cabs.
I hear you about lugging it however. I’ll be 70 at the end of the year and it’s a load, all in rack and two cabs about 150lbs, but I can still manage it. But unless the gig is outdoors, it’s like using a bazooka to kill a fly on a window. Most gigs I either use my Eden 210 combo, or the D-210-XST powered with an Eden WTB-300v tube amp for larger venues.
Since we always have FOH support, my rig in the future is using my Navi as a headphone amp, getting a monitor send from the board in to the side chain ( the level is adjustable another convenient feature of the Navi preamp) and I’m good to go. I may spring for a Bassboard transducer as having worked with one in the past with an ampless system. We’ll see.
Take care.
Any time I hear/read that term, I always picture a foamy mug of cream soda. Sonically, those same words makes me think of the guitar solo in Nat King Cole's "The Christmas Song."
The only tube amp I ever had was a 70's Bassman 50 that my Dad's friend gave me. It never left my basement, and I only used it with my old modified Telecaster (guitar) with a neck humbucker, trying to play like Wes Montgomery. Plugged a bass into it a few times, and it didn't seem to like it. Could hear a "sizzle" sound from the back of the amp.
The only tube amp I ever had was a 70's Bassman 50 that my Dad's friend gave me. It never left my basement, and I only used it with my old modified Telecaster (guitar) with a neck humbucker, trying to play like Wes Montgomery. Plugged a bass into it a few times, and it didn't seem to like it. Could hear a "sizzle" sound from the back of the amp.
It's a type of distortion, but not like from a pedal. When I was less experienced I'd go try tube amps to figure out what the distortion was and I couldn't really hear it because I was listening for a more spitty sound (which you can get from tubes, but that's not what the 'warmth' is).
A good tube sound at the right breakup point just sounds fuller without sounding very distorted. Like your bass, but a little more than just your bass. If you go louder than that point you can get into more traditional distortion sounds, but even those usually sound smoother than what you get out of a solid state amp with distortion.
The other trait of a tube amp is how it responds to playing dynamics. You can fill out the sound by playing harder or clean it up by playing softer without it ever sounding very distorted (you can also push it to full distortion if you want).
All that said, I am not currently using a tube amp for band work because they're kind of a PITA due to the weight and that it can be difficult to live in the tone sweet spot, and there's a lot of gear with less hassle that gets you right close to the same thing.
This is how I've experienced it. YMMV.
