What helped improve your time and feel?

[neprune]

I think my time and feel in most situations are 'servicable' but I want them to be really good.

I'm taking a kitchen sink approach from a load of the exercise ideas I've come across online, see below, but I want to know what you think has actually helped improve your time and feel.

On the time front, I'm trying the thing where you count the beats as you play (i.e. just 1,2,3,4, regardless of what you're actually playing), and also the Victor Wooten groove exercise thing with a drum loop with increasing dropouts. For feel, I'm trying to nail my 16th note placements by working on a Nick Campbell exercise where you play through some 16th note patterns, offsetting by one every bar, and looping through until they sound good. I'm also just playing with straight drum tracks and experimenting with trying to push and pull lines around the beat.

Any help is much appreciated!

 

[ahbass2500]

Practice...

With a metronome...*

When you first practice, put the bass down. Learn how to count/subdivide. Write out the subdivisions if you have to. Clap and count out the part before you ever pick up a bass. Slow things down and work up to tempo**; both clapping and with the bass. Increase the complexity of the rhythms you are reading/playing. Learning to count/play Bill Bruford's Beelzebub gave me a ton of growth when I was young (played the bass part when my high school percussion ensemble did it my sophomore year).

*Drum tracks are ok, but if you are going back to basics, all you need is a beep/click.

**I frequently find slowing everything down to be harder because it forces me to really count/figure out where to land the note. Generally it means I was not landing it all that well at speed to begin with.

 

[J Wilson]

I spent an aggregate of a year or two with a metronome in my piano training, so my sense of time is deeply ingrained.

Having said that (and after a few early attempts at playing on time in dragging or rushing bands or drummers, a dead end), I found ultimately the only real way to do it was to play in time inside the time of the band, whatever that turned out to be.

I've been in a few bands that were fairly metronome perfect. Most however, the time was a bit fluid, whether speeding up or slowing back in spots I found that staying in time with them worked best.

I'd simply say you need to develop as steady and solid time as is possible, but don't get knocked off the horse when you run into time that breathes.

On the other, when it comes to really bad bands whose only operational capability of time is to read that round thing on the wall, run like hell.

 

[bhunt1]

Playing along to drum tracks

 

[Elmstreet]

Following, this is something I'm really wanting to develop as a newer player.

I can definitely agree with the benefit of being fluid with the band, echoing what J Wilson is saying. In my limited experience we are rarely exactly what the record is. My drummer has a tendency to rush a bit during a chorus and calm back down during verses.

What's a good starting point, 20 min a day with a metronome or drum track?

 

[OlyWhite]

I’ve been working on my timing lately as part of an SBL course. These have been helpful for me:

Sight Reading - Gridmic

Rhythm sight reading exercises, overall rhythm education and appreciation of the great art of patterns in time. We want to help you improve your rhythm reading skills with lots of videos dedicated to very specific figures and their combinations, from the easiest to the most difficult ones...

m.youtube.com

‎Rhythm Sight Reading Trainer

‎Accelerate your sight reading skills with instant feedback on timing accuracy. Our carefully graduated levels, from beginner to professional, allow you to start at your optimal skill level and progress at your own pace. You'll improve more rapidly than practicing solely on your instrument...

apps.apple.com

 

[ahbass2500]

What's a good starting point, 20 min a day with a metronome or drum track?

Not really something folks on the forum can answer. How much time do you have, how quickly do you want to get better, and how do you best learn things? When I was heavily working on improving timing, I might spend half of my practice time in a day on counting (granted this was when I did not have a full time job and practiced 3-8 hours a day). As you start working things out, you can turn down the amount of time you dedicate specifically to rhythm/counting practice (but that does not mean you should completely neglect it).

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you are practicing with a bass in your hands you should almost always have a metronome, drum track, or drummer (unless you are just trying to get note locations figured out before turning on met/drums). Practicing out of time can lead to practicing bad habits.

Of course all of this is my opinion/what works for me. Something else may work best for you.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Buncha beats and songs of all types on iRealPro (not an apple thing, and it costs a little) that you can mute the bass on and play all day.

But as JW says above, the best answer to your question is "by playing with other musicians."

 

[Pyrrho Epoche]

Just playing along to early gypsy jazz tracks. Most tracks are recorded with early equipment, that did not capture lower tones, so your bass fits in perfectly. That is how I got super fast---just laying it down for Django and Grappelli.

 

[KenD]

I think my time and feel in most situations are 'servicable' but I want them to be really good.

I think this means you have to acquire the skill/touch to sync up tightly with the drummer you're working with. So playing along with a variety of drum tracks or, ideally, jamming with just you and a drummer. If you don't play with a drummer then just the drum tracks would work IMO.

 

[bass12]

Recording myself and listening back has led to my biggest improvements where time is concerned. It’s virtually impossible to accurately evaluate the finer details of one’s own playing in real time. Listening back to a recording of yourself will give you a much more accurate picture and you can then see where your tendencies lie (e.g., I have a tendency to rush when playing “disco octaves”).

 

[OlyWhite]

Just playing along to early gypsy jazz tracks. Most tracks are recorded with early equipment, that did not capture lower tones, so your bass fits in perfectly. That is how I got super fast---just laying it down for Django and Grappelli.

Oh my gosh, what an awesome idea!

 

[Derek Kay]

Using a metronome on the back beat helped me identify my faults

Also recording my gigs for evaluation

 

[31HZ]

Playing a *lot* helped me the most.

Learning how to listen to where the snare/kick were landing (ahead or behind the beat) helped, too.

Adopting a style (in my case, floating thumb on a 6-string bass) so that I could focus on staying relaxed further helped me avoid rushing or pushing the beat when I wanted to lay back.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

What everybody else said re: playing along w metronome, canned drum tracks, drum machine, recordings of drummers/bands that posess fantastic grove and feel.

Also, for me, learning to “dig less deep” as a fingerstyle player was helpful in being able to get the notes off more quickly and accurately.

Fingers hanging up on the string, even minimally, due to fat fingering the pluck, can keep you from executing the nuanced grooves that come to you as you play.

 

[arepa_funk]

For me it was listening to and playing a bunch of reggae and funk. Reggae because of the acres of space left between notes meant my time had to be perfect, syncopation, use of triads, avoiding the 1, etc.

Funk is similar except the 1 is (usually) heavily emphasized, and sixteenth notes are very important.

For reggae:
Family Man with Bob Marley and the Wailers and Lee Scratch Perry's early Upsetters (Boris Gardiner for later Upsetters)
Flabba Holt with the Roots Radics (junjo lawes projects, Gregory Isaacs, Scientist, etc.)
Satta Massagana by the Abyssinians
Anything with Robbie Shakespeare.

For funk:
Funk Power compilation by James Brown, amazing Bootsy lines.
Anything by the Meters (George Porter Jr on bass), the kings of using space and off accents in funk.
Tower of Power, for brilliant use of sixteenth notes.
Paul Jackson's bass playing with the Headhunters.

Best of both worlds:
Comfort Woman by Meshell Ndegeocello. Her use of space, time, and feel in her grooves, especially on this very dub and reggae influenced album, are superior to my ears.

Ymmv, imo, etc.

 

[SDC1-ClickClack]

What helped improve your time and feel?

Well, I started to focus more on my partner's pleasure and....
Oh.
No, wait, um, never mind.

 

[Big Feet]

I was lucky, as my buddy growing up was a drummer. We’d jam, and he’d set up a pattern and a tempo and I’d try to build lines and fit riffs inside his time. He was good and steady, and it kept me honest! It also helped me with styles. Working in that setting with one or two others is a gas!

 

[prndltech]

Playing with people better than me.

Why I got asked to do so, I’ll never know. But the biggest improvement in my playing came from playing with people that I had no business playing with. Obviously they knew that, but they kept ( and keep) on asking and I just say yes.

It made me practice more, think more, try harder, etc… I think they’re just being nice, but people ask for a reason. If you’re scared to death to take a gig… do it. The last couple years has pushed me beyond my comfort zone and that’s exactly where you should be! When I couldn’t keep up, I had pro’s turn to me and say “you got this, I’ve seen or heard this to many times, you got it in you and that’s why you’re here.” Sometimes I just remind myself of that. We’re our worst critics.

So I say try to put yourself in uncomfortable circumstances and just go for it. Every time you play is a learning experience.

 

[Altitude]

Try using your metronome as beats 2 and 4, or as the upbeat of every quarter note instead of the downbeat. For me, that helps to develop a swing feel, useful if you’re actually trying to swing or just if you want to add a drop or two of it to what you’re playing.