What helped improve your time and feel?

[Nedmundo]

In addition to practice, recording (!!!), and playing in several rock bands of various genres, a couple of experiences stand out.

The first was playing with a truly creative, amazing drummer in an original rock band. She sometimes took an impressionistic approach, and would improvise for several bars. It could sound like she was leaving the groove. But she wasn't. She would always come out of it and land squarely on the one--so I HAD to be there. She forced me to develop my internal timing more than any other drummer. Playing with her made me a better musician, and she had the same effect on the guitarist. (She has since become an elite percussionist in Middle Eastern music. April Centrone - NY ARABIC ORCHESTRA)

Second was playing a couple of musical theater shows. One of them forced me to dramatically improve my (minimal) reading chops, which in itself helped my timing. This show also didn't involve a leader/conductor, so we had to be spot on. It required serious timing discipline, and afterwards my rock band felt like it was moving in slow motion.

 

[GreyBeard]

4 year gig with a drum machine

 

[ajkula66]

Playing with a metronome/click.

Once you get a hang of it, start working on scales and arpeggios in odd signatures such as 3/4 and 7/8 to begin with. There are multiple benefits to be reaped from this approach IME.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

Lots of things helped me improve time. I took music theory classes in school, and I also played in the jazz band there alongside my rock band. Playing with other musicians 7 days a week did it for me. I still play out and record quite a bit. Now time never leaves me, and I'm always counting subconsciously whether I like it or not.

 

[coyote1]

It’s already been said, but the metronome is the must-go starting point. That said, lots of folks do not practice correctly with a metronome. While syncopation is essential, it’s more essential that you learn how to make the metronome disappear. That is, you want to practice playing (and hand clapping) ON the click. And you want it such that your note or clap occurs WITH the click, so precisely that you no longer hear the click but hear only your note/clap.

This throws most people**. When they no longer hear the metronome, they stop playing. Or they slow down or speed up. They do this in order to hear the metronome. But it is the precise thing you do NOT want to do! You want the ability to play comfortably for five minutes at a moderate tempo, without hearing that click. Then do it at a slower tempo. Then at a slower tempo than that. The longer you can go without hearing the click, the better you are internalizing time. Be confident that when you’re not hearing the click it’s NOT because the metronome is malfunctioning; it is because you are doing it right.

**It’s somewhat analogous to side view mirrors in a car. Most folks have ‘em set so they see the side of their own car, plus a bit of the next lane. Which of course is not useful; you want to see everything BUT your own car. But folks get antsy with that.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Jeff Berlin will hate this, but playing incessantly with a metronome worked/works for me. Try to make the clicks sound funky and groovy with your bass playing.

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

All good answers.

Mine is a little different in that instead of a metronome, I spent years on end running a punch press, wide open, 40 hours a week.
You either get real good at timing or you lose fingers.
Pretty inspiring.

 

[Jazzdogg]

What helped improve your time and feel?

Well, I started to focus more on my partner's pleasure and....
Oh.
No, wait, um, never mind.

Speaking of...
...I remember a six-piece + vocalist in which I played for a decade.

The conga player and I got together and built two drum risers that stored flat and assembled quickly using knock-down hardware.

At gigs. The drummer and conga player occupied one riser, with bass and keyboards on the other. The lead singer/guitarist and horn players stood on the stage in front of us.

The impetus behind this set-up was a decision to create a tight rhythm section and, thus, a band with a deep pocket.

In other words, four of us did the work to get it right. It's amazing how good you can get when you focus with deliberate attention and intention.

We rehearsed as a rhythm section separately from the rest of the band. Our time, rhythm, and ability to read each others' cues in real time got stronger and stronger. We developed intros, kicks, licks, transitions, outros, and segues that made the whole band tighter.

It worked very well. I remember several "mind-melding" rehearsals and gigs where the rest of the band was startled at how tight we'd become. We began playing the first set (the so-called cocktail set) as rhythm section only, and we initiated multi-song medleys as we became capable of focused and deliberate musicianship.

Heck, even guitarist/vocalist/leader noticed!

I cherish the memory of these musical collaborations as much as the music we shared.

Edited to add: when I started feeling and playing more muted ghost notes, my playing, and my ability to subdivide time, got better, as we'll as my ability to communicate non-verbally with percussionists.

 

[Wfrance3]

My time feel is a work in progress but is tons better than it once was.
One thing that moved me forward quicker than other things is to just take a 4/4 metronome beat. Needs to be all the same click. Some metronomes make one of the clicks different from the other 3. Don’t use that kind….
Set to maybe 80 bpm or whatever you need. Do this exercise:
Play 4 notes between each click.
Click,2,3,4,click,2,3,4,click,2,3,4, so groups of four notes.
Now focus on playing the first note a little stronger, and a the remaining 3 a little quieter. ONE,2,3,4,ONE,2,3,4…
Now shift to the second beat. 1,TWO,3,4,1,TWO,3,4…
Then do the 3, then the 4, then loop back to the 1.
Just play one note. Make it an A, or a G or something down-neck that’s easy for you to grab.

I warm up every morning by playing 5 minutes with a random drum beat from dum genius, or my beat buddy, or something from a different place. I switch it up to keep from getting into a rut and also t keep from feeling inspired to do the same thing over and over. This will come with practice and time, but for now stick to the metronome exercise and get it to where you can loop the emphasize 1,2,3,4 exercise and moving the beat emphasis doesn’t derail you.
Hope this helps!

 

[robassable]

Playing lots of finger style funk will deeply ingrain good time, and just as important groove. Definitely practice A LOT with a metronome. Also subdivide, and think 16th note rhythms whenever you play. Rocco Prestia is (was) the absolute master. Listen to, and try to break down his playing with Tower of Power. Soul Vaccination sure comes to mind, among many others.

 

[Geogio]

Go up to YouTube, and search for "swinging a metronome" Carol Kaye has an interesting video on that plus there's a number of them up there and it's a neat thing to work on

 

[Killing Floor]

Playing violin in youth and high school orchestra. And practice. And practicing with slow and varying tempo with a metronome.

 

[Jazz Ad]

I started counting a lot. Constantly. It really pays to know exactly what you're doing instead of relying on feel and chance.
It also dramatically improves feel and chance a lot when you resort to them.
Use a notation app and get used to decypher and write down all rhythmic patterns you come up with. Then count to recreate them.

 

[Bass Motifs]

A lot of playing in time is about "ensemble" rather than metronome precision. So playing with others, and live performance, will help. Also the intensity of live performance, physical movement and playing posture all have an effect. Not saying a metronome at home won't help, but you might also benefit from listening to playbacks, then you really hear whether your "in time" or not. Sounding good in other words.

 

[Shenron]

I think my time and feel in most situations are 'servicable' but I want them to be really good.

As per the thread title question, what helped me most improved my time and feel is playing in a band.

When practicing alone, a metronome is obviously THE tool to use when wanting to improve TIMING. It should not be used for everything all the time however, only when the focus of your exercise is timing. The metronome also doesn't teach FEEL.

Most music before rap/hip-hop and outside electronic genres doesn't have a stable timing throughout songs but a rather fluid timing, with the band slightly accelerating/decelerating and in certain songs doing more obvious time changes, so playing with others is what makes you better. If you don't have the option, playing on top of records doesn't hurt.

On drum machines I am a bit undecided... they are exact as a metronome but more distracting, so when your exercise focus is really on timing and nothing else, so you want to remove dynamics (i.e. play all identical notes) or force dynamics (i.e. play accents in specific patterns), I still think the metronome is better, because a drum machine will often subtly suggest its own accents. Viceversa, the drum machine is perhaps still too rigid for practicing feel.

 

[SteveCS]

...
the only real way to do it was to play in time inside the time of the band, whatever that turned out to be.
...
I'd simply say you need to develop as steady and solid time as is possible, but don't get knocked off the horse when you run into time that breathes.
...

the best answer to your question is "by playing with other musicians."

A lot of playing in time is about "ensemble" rather than metronome precision.

Exactly right. Time and feel come from the consensus or agreement reached between everyone in the ensemble, group or band. This agreement is under constant re-negotiation ('breathing') in real time as you play. To some extent, everyone has a 'voice' in that 'discussion'. Put a metronome or click in the mix and no-one has a voice. The metronome or click is like a dictator. It does not have ears; it can't hear you and therefore cannot respond to any requests to modify the consensus. It is all about maintaining awareness and keeping your ears open - things rarely turn out well if someone won't (or can't) listen and adapt.

YMMV

 

[Pocket Dave]

I like the Jeff Berlin approach in terms of constant playing along with music vs long metronome workouts - tracks, live band w/decent drummer, whatever.

Either way, I get the same the effect, only one is much more fun.

And RECORD everything you can, even with a GoPro out front. Review after each session or gig and you'll quickly learn to ID what works and what doesn't.

I've been working in a variety of bands as often as I can, regular band with an amazing drummer most Fridays/Saturdays, subbing on off nights and playing a weekly opening jam-night set with another amazing drummer & featuring a different working-player guest host on guitar and vocals each week that we both woodshed for.

While I do pre-set and pre-home-woodshed exercises, putting in a lot of time playing with actual live and recorded music does more, faster for my feel & dynamics than any other exercise IME.

 

[suickers]

I think my time and feel in most situations are 'servicable' but I want them to be really good.

I'm taking a kitchen sink approach from a load of the exercise ideas I've come across online, see below, but I want to know what you think has actually helped improve your time and feel.

On the time front, I'm trying the thing where you count the beats as you play (i.e. just 1,2,3,4, regardless of what you're actually playing), and also the Victor Wooten groove exercise thing with a drum loop with increasing dropouts. For feel, I'm trying to nail my 16th note placements by working on a Nick Campbell exercise where you play through some 16th note patterns, offsetting by one every bar, and looping through until they sound good. I'm also just playing with straight drum tracks and experimenting with trying to push and pull lines around the beat.

Any help is much appreciated!

do the victor wooten tip. best advice any bassist has ever given

 

[SteveCS]

do the victor wooten tip. best advice any bassist has ever given

Perhaps, but consider this. If your drummer loses his sticks and stops playing do you think he keeps counting in isolation and comes back in when he thinks he's right, or does he listen to you and the rest of the band (that presumable keeps playing) and comes back in on your collective time?

 

[albertus]

I am going to be the unpopular guy here. do NOT use a metronome. you need to hear yourself playing and you need to separate the fisical act of playing from the acoustic side of playing. I am not going to go further with this idea because it is quite long to explain the theory behind it. I have seen people extenuate themselves with the click and never develope good time (myself included). anyone interested in this idea of improve your time for real, ask me in private. it is a quite a journey but worthy