Don't know if you are being sarcastic, but, in fact, top orchestra bass sections will play certain passages with tons of "groove," depending on what the score calls for. Playing with feeling has nada to do with training, IME.
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What is "groove"?
- Thread starter LotusCarsLtd52
- Start date
I agree with mambo - many of these responses fall into that category of saying a bunch of words without actually saying anything. Groove, pocket, "selling it", etc. are all terms that people throw around when they want something different than what they're hearing, but can't put into words what exactly it is they want.
To me, "groove" is a player's ability to convey their specific musical message precisely. For instance, in the song Superstition by Stevie Wonder - the line grooves because it's conveying very specific information. The note lengths are all very specific - the "tightness" the band has comes from all the players listening to and agreeing on the specific articulations and phrasing of each passage.
The same can be said of the drummer/bass relationship - when people tell you to "lock in" with the drummer, is that helpful information? Were you purposely trying to play against the drummer prior to being told that? Of course not, it's somebody telling you to do something, without giving you any useful information.
<mini-rant>
To me, "groove" is a player's ability to convey their specific musical message precisely. For instance, in the song Superstition by Stevie Wonder - the line grooves because it's conveying very specific information. The note lengths are all very specific - the "tightness" the band has comes from all the players listening to and agreeing on the specific articulations and phrasing of each passage.
The same can be said of the drummer/bass relationship - when people tell you to "lock in" with the drummer, is that helpful information? Were you purposely trying to play against the drummer prior to being told that? Of course not, it's somebody telling you to do something, without giving you any useful information.
<mini-rant>
Maybe I should also give you a more Classic Rock example. Take "Walk This Way," by Aerosmith. The bass is kind of a little loose feeling, but at the same time holding down a really rhythmic figure and kicking the can down the road. In the pocket. That's groove. GL.
Oh one last thing, IMO. A lot of the sense of groove and pocket is obtained by driving the pulse dynamically targeting the 2nd and 4th beats, rather than the 1 and 3. That's the backbeat. You will notice that in most classic rock, the snare shots on 2 and 4 are mixed way out front, almost up with the vocals. Same for R&B and blues. Jazz is a little more subtle and often uses the hat. this is the heartbeat, the handclap. Playing with feeling in that manner is playing in the groove. And any of the Motown, and especially Stevie Wonder's stuff is a great example.
EOR, GL
EOR, GL
For me, groove is (but not always) perfect harmony between bass and drums, really locking in together as if they were a single instrument.
I think the intermission in Led Zeppelin's 'The Lemon Song' is a prime example, just Bonzo and JPJ really going for it.
My $0.02
I think the intermission in Led Zeppelin's 'The Lemon Song' is a prime example, just Bonzo and JPJ really going for it.
My $0.02
Groove exists in music - not specific to any instrument or combo. It's how one interprets music in the moment. If someone is simply regurgitating notes - even in time and with proper rhythmic execution, they are not necessarily 'grooving'. If, however, they are delivering the music with a sense of feeling - inflection - articulation - making sure it sounds like it's coming from the heart - not just playing the right things - but playing them with a sense of meaning - that's where groove starts.
There are various types of 'groove' - like funky - laid back - aggressive - happy - and while they all share commonalities like phrasing and how the ensemble plays with each other - each groove is unique to the person or group. One group could play "The Lemon Song" and deliver the groove very similarly to Zep - while another could embrace an 'Aerosmithian' groove - which, while still rockin' - would embody a different flavor of execution and meaning.
Aspects of groove can be quantified but there are also intangible aspects that you simply know when you hear them.
Groove also exists in poetry or speech making. It's moving the moment along with meaning and expression no matter what instrument is being used.
There are various types of 'groove' - like funky - laid back - aggressive - happy - and while they all share commonalities like phrasing and how the ensemble plays with each other - each groove is unique to the person or group. One group could play "The Lemon Song" and deliver the groove very similarly to Zep - while another could embrace an 'Aerosmithian' groove - which, while still rockin' - would embody a different flavor of execution and meaning.
Aspects of groove can be quantified but there are also intangible aspects that you simply know when you hear them.
Groove also exists in poetry or speech making. It's moving the moment along with meaning and expression no matter what instrument is being used.
- Jul 8, 2009
- 1,612
- 11
- Disclosures
- A&R, Soulless Corporation Records
Groove is not so much aout what notes you play as how you play them. Something I find that generally embodies this is "Have a meaning for every note you play." It's what seperates a bassline and a human being playing bass. It's about emotion.
Hey Lotus,
if you really need a definition.. you can try this one from merriam webster:
Main Entry: 1groove
Pronunciation: \ˈgrüv\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English grove pit, cave, from Middle Dutch groeve; akin to Old High German gruoba pit, cave, Old English grafan to dig more at grave
Date: 1659
1 : a long narrow channel or depression
2 a : a fixed routine : rut b : a situation suited to one's abilities or interests : niche
3 : top form <a great talker when he is in the groove>
4 : the middle of the strike zone in baseball where a pitch is most easily hit <a fastball right in the groove>
5 : an enjoyable or exciting experience
6 : a pronounced enjoyable rhythm
or this one from thefreedictionary.com..
groove (grv)
n.
1. A long narrow furrow or channel.
2. The spiral track cut into a phonograph record for the stylus to follow.
3. Slang A settled routine: got into the groove of a nine-to-five job.
4. Slang A situation or an activity that one enjoys or to which one is especially well suited: found his groove playing bass in a trio.
5. Slang A very pleasurable experience.
v. grooved, groov·ing, grooves
v.tr.
1. To cut a groove or grooves in.
2. Baseball To throw (a pitch) over the middle of home plate, where it is likely to be hit.
v.intr. Slang
1.
a. To take great pleasure or satisfaction; enjoy oneself: just sitting around, grooving on the music.
b. To be affected with pleasurable excitement.
2. To react or interact harmoniously.
Idiom:
in the groove Slang
Performing exceptionally well.
[Middle English groof, mining shaft, probably from Middle Dutch groeve, ditch; see ghrebh-2 in Indo-European roots.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
groove [gruːv]
n
1. (Miscellaneous Technologies / Building) a long narrow channel or furrow, esp one cut into wood by a tool
2. (Engineering / Electrical Engineering) the spiral channel, usually V-shaped, in a gramophone record See also microgroove
3. (Military / Firearms, Gunnery, Ordnance & Artillery) one of the spiral cuts in the bore of a gun
4. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Anatomy) Anatomy any furrow or channel on a bodily structure or part; sulcus
5. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Mountaineering) Mountaineering a shallow fissure in a rock face or between two rock faces, forming an angle of more than 120°
6. a settled existence, routine, etc., to which one is suited or accustomed, esp one from which it is difficult to escape
7. Slang an experience, event, etc., that is groovy
in the groove
a. (Music) Jazz playing well and apparently effortlessly, with a good beat, etc.
b. US fashionable
vb
1. (tr) to form or cut a groove in
2. (intr) Dated slang to enjoy oneself or feel in rapport with one's surroundings
3. (Music) (intr) Jazz to play well, with a good beat, etc.
[from obsolete Dutch groeve, of Germanic origin; compare Old High German gruoba pit, Old Norse grof]
grooveless adj
groovelike adj
keep groovin´
