As it was explained to me in a microphone discussion (I had asked about a mic's ability to hear bass singers on low E), that we hear that note an octave higher/the octave overtone, so the mic would indeed pick it up.
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What is the frequency of low E on a 4 string?
- Thread starter Matthew West
- Start date
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
It's not that we hear the note an octave up but that harmonics are generated an octave up (and many higher order harmonics) that are reproduced and picked up by the mic.
And also different gauge does make a difference of envelope decay (which is also effected by different string tensions).
As the envelope decay characteristic depends on several variables so the additional generated transient noise at decay "transients" may vary a lot. The generated transient noise can be described as a noise (it's really noise) that looks very close like a Gaussian bell curve and (theoretically) starts at DC and spreads to infinite frequency range.
Transient noise is vary natural with any stringed instruments and this noise is (most often) the reason for highis (random) cone excursions which can be sometimes noticed with ported cabs
Interesting thread, definitely info that never ages and is always relevant.
However, I would like to congratulate the members who were here at the birth of this thread, and at its re-birth 17 years later!
That's very cool you're still active on here... Says a lot for the quality of Talkbass.
However, I would like to congratulate the members who were here at the birth of this thread, and at its re-birth 17 years later!
That's very cool you're still active on here... Says a lot for the quality of Talkbass.
Yes and no: it's the 1st harmonic *overtone*, but the 2nd harmonic frequency. A harmonic is the fundamental frequency times a positive integer: this includes 1, so the 1st harmonic is the fundamental itself.
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I was pretty much quoting my string teacher from college. He must have been using harmonic and overtone interchangeably.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
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Unless you're building a sub-woofer, which typically makes for a poor substitute for a full range bass cab...
Nothing impressive about it in my book! I just wasted the time reading through the damn thing!!
A total of 23 posts and this has to be one of them!!
Do you ever post anything other than complaints about bumped threads?
Ffs.. Just because something is old doesn't mean someone can't learn from it.
I was mostly complementing the necro-er on finding such an ancient thread and posting something somewhat relevant. There's been a number of threads on this exact topic in more recent time, so it's kind of funny that Bubbles choose such an old one.
I do get grumpy when I waste what little time I have reading through irrelevant threads. As the more than five thousand “likes” I have been honoured with attest, it would seem that I do have a lot of valuable information to pass on. You?
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I was using Bi-amping in the late seventies, early Eighties. it worked well enough but you had to carry more equipment for it to work. Since high power crossovers became available the need is no longer there.
The problem with a 15 paired with a 4x10 is certainly not with the 4x10. A single 15 will be damaged by the lows pushed into it. The 4x10 would probably have more lows than the 15 and be able to handle considerably more power.
As an EE, retired now, I don’t get my information via Youtube.
You can not always apply what is done in a home stereo system to a bass amp. They are a different animal all together.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,771
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- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
+1...the only places I've seen a bi-amp concept work really well is in the GK heads and cabs, and when I used a 115 and 210 back in the 80's. Admittedly the GK solution was a much better execution - quite seamless and effective in fact.I was using Bi-amping in the late seventies, early Eighties. it worked well enough but you had to carry more equipment for it to work. Since high power crossovers became available the need is no longer there.
The problem with a 15 paired with a 4x10 is certainly not with the 4x10. A single 15 will be damaged by the lows pushed into it. The 4x10 would probably have more lows than the 15 and be able to handle considerably more power.
As an EE, retired now, I don’t get my information via Youtube.
You can not always apply what is done in a home stereo system to a bass amp. They are a different animal all together.
Ultimately though, I just don't find bi-amping necessary or even that much of an advantage in a bass rig for the way I play.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,000
- 5
- 220,797
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I could certainly design a killer biamped rig (real biamped, with an 18" and an 8" or 10" plus tweeter) using premium components that would be an improvement over even the Subways, Barefaced's, Greenboys etc, the size and cost would make it a pro only piece with very little real world sales. It's one of the frustrating factors when designing more oft he specialty products.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,771
- 40,448
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
With the exceptional full-range products you and other premier designers have given us these days, I'm not sure even those who could easily afford the price tag and be able to handle the size and weight would feel it to be a necessity. As much as I hate to admit it, bass rigs are becoming more and more for stage monitoring and small venues than for carrying the house at big shows. The largest indoor and outdoor events I've played have required virtually nothing from me other than a signal to the board - it's almost like being in the studio.
I think this is one big reason why I find the Subway line of products so useful. It's a compact system with a dynamite on- stage sound that includes a top notch DI. The sound techs then use their pro-audio, bi-amped, supercharged, whatever systems to create the sound for the audience. I mean if you're not mic'ing drums (especially the kick), then pushing insane bass doesn't make sense - you need to keep that balanced. If you are mic'ing the drums, then the systems will typically already have subs and mains and you won't need a huge bi-amped bass rig competing with that on stage.
Depends on what cab you are talking about.
More power handling doesn't mean more low end efficiency.
I have an SB15p at work , it would kill any 4X10 bass cab , low end efficiency speaking....
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If there are bass players here who can't hear the fundamental of a low E string they are playing the wrong instrument. Incidentally I have run a frequency generator through an SVT head and cab when setting it up and I can hear the pure 40 cycle tone, yes it does drop off but it is there. Saying an Ampeg 8 x 10 cab can't reproduce a low E is one of the biggest myths perpetuated here on talk bass, also saying that you can't hear a 40 cycle tone is another huge myth.
Check this out and run it though your computer speakers, especially if you have decent speakers you should be able to reproduce the tones down to at least 40 cycles. If you have cheap speakers then try to differentiate the tone from the noise your speakers will generate.
Online Tone Generator - generate pure tones of any frequency
Check this out and run it though your computer speakers, especially if you have decent speakers you should be able to reproduce the tones down to at least 40 cycles. If you have cheap speakers then try to differentiate the tone from the noise your speakers will generate.
Online Tone Generator - generate pure tones of any frequency
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