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Double Bass What kind of comping do you prefer?

#21
In an interview with Red Mitchell on his site he talks about spending an afternoon in a hotel concert venue room talking to Freddie Green about his rhythm guitar attacking motion with his right hand. Mostly involving the angle and kind of "snap" of his right wrist.
Biggest problem i've had with trying to convey the issue to younger, less experienced guitarists is the fact that they want to leave their amp hot while playing rhythm. The amp needs to be totally off and totally acoustic with hollow body instruments or an overload of sustain happens, ruining the punch. IME, very few solid body geetar players can pull off jazz rhythm geetar. The fine Candian guitarist, Ed Bickert is a huge exception and one of his ex-students, Rob something..? does a great job too.
My buddy, a Denver jazz guitarist who I did a duo record with many years ago, Dale Bruning, is another splendid and leading exponent of the Freddie Green/Jim Hall school of jazz rhythm guitar playing.
 
#24
and just because it's a bass solo, it's not a reason to start talking to other band members. My pet peeve. I know it's childish, but when musicians don't respect the bass player's solo time, I make a point of playing a solo that goes 'outside', and not making a distinct end for the solo.
But to the topic. I prefer a bit of Freddy Green type comping, with the guitar player picking up on my solo everyone in a while - an impromptu duet, done well, is wonderful. Sketch the progression just enough to keep the framework- not every chord but the one stat draw attention or signal principle chord changes. When comping stay out of my register- if I go high, guitar goes low, and vice versa. Follow the bass solo and compliment it, don't just bang on the six string just to provide noise.
 
#25
azureblue said:
and just because it's a bass solo, it's not a reason to start talking to other band members. My pet peeve. I know it's childish, but when musicians don't respect the bass player's solo time, I make a point of playing a solo that goes 'outside', and not making a distinct end for the solo.
Click to expand...

I just say things like:

"will you shut the f*** up or should I talk during your next solo?"

or

"put the f***ing phone away or I'm checking in on facebook during your next solo"

or

"you don't have an icecube's chance in hell with her"
 
#26
LOL, when I saw the thread title, I thought it said: What kind of complaining do you prefer?

Honestly, I like variety. That way, if one thing doesn't work, then the next thing might work better. I don't mind playing the occasional solo where the rest of the band drops out. The only pitfall is, if the band doesn't stay on top of the form, then it's a train wreck when my solo ends and it's time for the next solo. Sometimes I have to play an obvious turn-around to get the band back in.

Once, a fairly inebriated pianist got into a conversation with a patron during my solo, dropped out, and then forgot about me. And it was a tune where I couldn't quite remember the changes. So I went into some relatively atonal cadenza, and then abruptly ended it.
 
#27
Loving the responses, guys. It'll give me a lot to be aware of next gig. LOL on the band dropping out and losing the form. Ashamed now to say I've been there, but I have. :o

I've been shedding on my comping since reading your input, and honestly it's helped me by giving me some constraints to work within (that's almost always good -- limitation exercises). I can't wait to get on a session or gig soon to see what works.

Anyway, thanks again, this thread has been very insightful and helpful for me!

Happy thumping!
 
#28
If someone's talking during a solo, it better be work related. If they're ignoring us, maybe we should play more interesting solos, or maybe we should be playing with people who are more respectful on the stand. You think anyone is ignoring Chris McBride or Avishai during their solos? Of course, those guys are both leaders, so anyone talking over their solos probably ain't gonna be on the next tour. :smug:

A couple times on almost any gig, I'll trade with the drummer rather than take a whole solo. It's more interesting for everyone involved. Got a guy ignoring you or messing with his phone? Trade with him instead. Don't warn him. Keep people on their toes. Drop out on their next solo for the first two choruses. Conspire with the drummer and drop out together or do stop time. Switch to 3 on the bridge. Or... have the humility to realize that bass solos aren't really necessary much of the time. Even the great Ray Brown soloed sparsely with Oscar Peterson's trio. If Ray doesn't have to blow on every tune as a sideman, neither do we. Take a nice tune as a feature and leave the heavy lifting to the guys who don't bleed when they play.

There are always creative solutions, people. Vibing is a last resort.
 
#31
All this advice is awesome, and please tell your drummer friends to not get stoopid quiet and go "tick-ti-ti-tick" in as zombie-like a manner as possible. Total buzzkill.

I play both instruments at an intermediate level as far as jazzing goes, and I've made musical friends on account of being a solid, musical rhythm guitarist, which is a skill I attribute a lot to having played a ton of bass as well. More so than being a shredding soloist, it's Freddie Green/Charlie Christian till the the cows come home for me, with the odd Wes/Joe Pass 6 and 9 voicing when I can manage to grab em. For more modern stuff, Frisell fragment-y, drone-y open string voicings are a nice way to warm up and enhance bass solos too. Dont be afraid to light a fire under the bassists' butt a bit too, but be respectful that you are now an acCOMPanist.
 
#32
i want the band to realize that the tune still has to groove when the bass stops walking. i like to leave space in my solos. many times i start my solo with 4 bars or so of silence to let the energy settle back down. when this happens many times you can hear the groove go to hell and the tension in the other guys' playing. i was providing the groove before, and now im not. there are some guys who i play with, if im not playing straight 8ths the whole damn time they get lost or turn it around. practice comping for bass players without a bass player around to see if the group can hold it together. and turn volume down please. i dont want to kill my technique just trying to be heard over a guitar player who doesnt realize that the volume control works in both directions. once they start turning it up it never goes back down. just keeps creeping up all night long. (do i sound bitter? i am)
 
#33
I just saw Will Vinson last week playing with Mike Moreno(guitar) Matt Brewer (Bass) and Jochen Rueckert (drum)

For Matt solo it just really surprised me how Mike would simply play some chord here and there and then the melody during the space isn't this genius.

This almost make me want to play with guitars players again, just need to find one that can listen and understand...
 
#34
chicagodoubler said:
If someone's talking during a solo, it better be work related. If they're ignoring us, maybe we should play more interesting solos, or maybe we should be playing with people who are more respectful on the stand. You think anyone is ignoring Chris McBride or Avishai during their solos? Of course, those guys are both leaders, so anyone talking over their solos probably ain't gonna be on the next tour. :smug:


There are always creative solutions, people. Vibing is a last resort.
Click to expand...

I was mostly joking though I did once stop soloing and glare at someone standing right in front of me (between me and the audience) playing on their phone. They felt awful and apologized profusely. I also pulled a guy aside on the break and told them that I think it looks unprofessional to the audience when they seem unengaged or if they are going to do that stuff to leave the stage. It's definitely every bit as unprofessional to yell at someone on stage. It's often not just the bass solo either. When their solo is over they think their job is done until the head out. If you are performing live the look is often just as important as the sound.

I also remember hearing a podcast with Christian McBride complaining about this exact thing. I think it is just the bane of bass players.
 
#35
Heres one small idea: keep your voicing flexible...
Silly example, but if you on Cmaj I want to play with f# ideas and you have a 'g' up top (minor 9th away lets say) we're all in for a rude sound.

I guess simply ill say leave the chords flexible, and dont over color- bassists 'need' to use more altered tones sometimes to get interesting, but we cannnt if we dont have the room
 
#36
Personally I find that if a guitarist can't listen, he should just play sparse voicings. R-3-7. It outlines the changes just fine, and gives the bassist room to play with the chord.

Of course, there's no substitute for comping players that will listen and react, so we sound like a band instead of a guy soloing over a backing track.
 
#39
I love Jerry Hahn, man.... he's not afraid to bend the strings. That vid is a lick stealer's paradise, from a guitarist's point of view.

One of my favorite compers was Howard Roberts. I did a few gigs with him... he was rooted in the tradition, but he put some harmonic twists in there that really made it fun. It was a good time for me to keep my ears wide open. :D
 
#40
Am I the first one NOT being happy with Freddy Green comping and (too many) roots? Of course it's nice to have roots going on when it's bossa or samba, and for other grooves: figure out what is essential to keep that groove going without the bass, in a way that you don't take over the bassplayers role (did any of you guys really had pianists or guitarists playing walking bass under a bass solo? Thats hilarious!)
I like the way Bill Frisell is comping the bass (angel song from Kenny Wheeler or the Bill Evans tribute with Pau Motian)
Another thing: I peronally like it if the comping is in general not in a subdivision smaller than mine or in rhythms that are more syncopated than mine.
 

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