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What makes a Sadowsky better than a Music Man or a Modulus?
- Thread starter Harper
- Start date
But it's still a piece of marketing for his company, which in so many words makes it a commercial. And there's NOTHING wrong with that.
I own two NYC Sadowskys. I sold my Stingray 5. The Sadowskys don't play or sound $3,000 better than the Music Man. To me, they do play and sound better, though.
Only you can decide if they're better enough to cough up the extra $3K. At the time I bought the Sadowskys, I had sufficient resources to do so. You should take your resources into consideration. I wouldn't buy them now that I'm not working unless I could sell enough stuff to pay for them.
Only you can decide if they're better enough to cough up the extra $3K. At the time I bought the Sadowskys, I had sufficient resources to do so. You should take your resources into consideration. I wouldn't buy them now that I'm not working unless I could sell enough stuff to pay for them.
Rather than get derailed into an adolescent mine is better (bigger) than yours, the simple answer is nothing. Take your $3000 on go on your way.
Rays are nice and very well made. They sound great and are very useful. Nice basses. if they give you the sound you want, then go for it.
Roger and Co. have dedicated themselves for a couple of decades to refining what they understand to be the elements most highly prized by serious players. There is no pretentiousness there, just honest hard work. You should really try one of the basses on a gig, and listen to what it is doing in the mix; then make up your own mind. For this kind of money, would you really use some kind of banter on an internet site to make your decision? Use your own ears. If you can't afford to play one for a couple of years, listen to one of many YouTube recordings. The Will Lee recordings with Oz Noy are a good place to start.
The link to Behind the Notes is a great reference as well. David Galea playing the scene changes is no slouch, BTW.
Honestly, if you are truly curious, there are numerous threads and reference materials to be found. If you are trolling, everyone here has already seen it - probably why there are so few responses. Not sure why I bothered. GL.
No offense, but 45 responses in a few hours is hardly "so few responses." Also, I don't understand how you garner "trolling" from an honest question in which I gave the company props.
I've owned both MM and Sadowsky. Never owned a Modulus but did play a pair of Zons for about 10 years straight.
Some people will not be able to tell the difference between the MM and the Sadowsky (other than the shape and the name on the headstock). Others can tell the difference in the sound. Others can find build quality differences. In general the Sadowsky will have better fit and finish than the MM. That is part of what the extra money gets you.
There is a law of diminishing returns with everything in life. A knowledgeable person will be able to point out small details of workmanship on the Sadowsky that are better executed than the MM. That isn't a knock on the MM - but it is the difference between a production instrument and a boutique. You pay more so you should expect more. As for "better" it just depends on if you appreciate subtle build/design issues and what you like for sound. It certainly isn't necessary to spend $4K to get a good instrument. But some people want to.
Some people will not be able to tell the difference between the MM and the Sadowsky (other than the shape and the name on the headstock). Others can tell the difference in the sound. Others can find build quality differences. In general the Sadowsky will have better fit and finish than the MM. That is part of what the extra money gets you.
There is a law of diminishing returns with everything in life. A knowledgeable person will be able to point out small details of workmanship on the Sadowsky that are better executed than the MM. That isn't a knock on the MM - but it is the difference between a production instrument and a boutique. You pay more so you should expect more. As for "better" it just depends on if you appreciate subtle build/design issues and what you like for sound. It certainly isn't necessary to spend $4K to get a good instrument. But some people want to.
Harper said:
The way you phrased the question and seemed to disregard some reasonable responses seemed curious. And you have not heard much from the main Sadowsky players. If you took the time to watch Behind the Notes on YouTube you would not ask that question.
The response I would post can be found at number 18 in this thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/why-buy-sadowsky-821142/#post11697544
Here are some non-tonal reasons why a Sadowsky NYC can be thought of as better than a Stingray (I've never owned a Modulus):
They're considerably lighter (chambered bodies and ultra light tuners)
Fancier wood options
Even string volumes (Some Stingrays suffer from the quiet G string syndrome)
Wide 19mm string spacing (for those who have trouble slapping on the narrow 17mm on Stingrays)
Lowered fretboard towards the high notes to counteract the ski ramp effect
Metal threaded screw holes
Great customer service
They're considerably lighter (chambered bodies and ultra light tuners)
Fancier wood options
Even string volumes (Some Stingrays suffer from the quiet G string syndrome)
Wide 19mm string spacing (for those who have trouble slapping on the narrow 17mm on Stingrays)
Lowered fretboard towards the high notes to counteract the ski ramp effect
Metal threaded screw holes
Great customer service
Well I read through another "What makes Sadowsky better" thread after I swore them off long ago!
This question pops up alot and honestly there just isn't an answer.Roger goes through great pains to produce the best basses he possibly can ant the attention to detail is top shelf.They are very consistent from bass to bass and Sadowsky customer service is outstanding.
However does all that qualify it in "$3000 better?", or even better at all.Only you can answer that-better is subjective.To some it is and to some it isn't.Play one-if it speaks to you then maybe it's worth it.If it doesn't speak to then the build quality etc doesn't matter-why get one?? For me personally,I like them, but didn't flip over them.So for me-not worth an extra $3000.For the next guy-maybe so.
Two things I look for in any bass regardless of price or quality of woods or anything else.Playability and tone.Funny I was talking to a friend the other day(a guitar player I play with alot)He told me of all the high dollar basses I've brought out to gigs he likes my new one the most.I said I'm loving it too-plays great and sounds great.It's an American Standard P-Bass I paid $800 for.I guess what I'm saying is are Sadowsky's great-Yes.Do you have to spend a fortune to get a great bass-No.
I wouldn't say the quality of the Sadowsky Metro's is any different to the EBMM's. In fact, the usual setup and out of the box experience with a new EBMM is absolutely fantastic, when you realise its a USA built instrument, and they come out with some cool and crazy designs as well as the normal Ray shapes. In the UK the EBMM is much cheaper in comparison with a Metro.
I understand the Metro basses are rarer in comparision with how many Ray's are around, but lets face it, nothing sound like a Musicman.
Despite that, I admire Sadowsky's...the attention to detail and design is very 'clean and crisp'. I admire anything that has that level of work. I just think the European prices of the Metro's prices them out of the market.
I understand the Metro basses are rarer in comparision with how many Ray's are around, but lets face it, nothing sound like a Musicman.
Despite that, I admire Sadowsky's...the attention to detail and design is very 'clean and crisp'. I admire anything that has that level of work. I just think the European prices of the Metro's prices them out of the market.
I think there is a law of diminishing return when buying anything. It doesn't just apply to basses.
If you buy a $100 bass and compare it to a $500 bass, there will be HUGE differences between the two. But if you compare a $1500 bass to a $3000 bass, the differences will be much smaller. Yes, the more expensive one will be better (in most cases), but you are gaining far less for your cash outlay. The value proposition is far lower on the more expensive bass.
There is typically a tipping point at which you begin to gain very little for the extra money you lay down. I believe that point is between $1500-$2000 (new).
If you are a professional player, I'm sure you could easily tell the difference between a $5000 bass and a $2000 one. But most people can't. I have a Lakland Skyline 55-02 and I had the opportunity to play the US version at NAMM and could not tell any difference. Not in feel, tone, playability....nothing. They felt the same to my unskilled hands.
I'm an avid motorcyclist, and I often get a chuckle out of guys who spend THOUSANDS of dollars to get their bikes to weigh as little as possible. Replacing everything they can with carbon fiber. Then you ask them how many track days they have done, and they say, "none". Or they brag that making their bike lighter dropped 2 seconds off their lap time that a 13 year old kid on a little 250 2-stroke destroyed by 20 seconds.
There is some merit to owning something that is exclusive, or owning something because you appreciate the care and attention to detail that went into it's construction. That's the whole concept behind jewelry and expensive watches. A $10 Timex keeps EXCELLENT time. Much better than a $5000 Rolex. But the Rolex is....well....a Rolex. It's beautiful and exclusive. That's why people buy them.
If you buy a $100 bass and compare it to a $500 bass, there will be HUGE differences between the two. But if you compare a $1500 bass to a $3000 bass, the differences will be much smaller. Yes, the more expensive one will be better (in most cases), but you are gaining far less for your cash outlay. The value proposition is far lower on the more expensive bass.
There is typically a tipping point at which you begin to gain very little for the extra money you lay down. I believe that point is between $1500-$2000 (new).
If you are a professional player, I'm sure you could easily tell the difference between a $5000 bass and a $2000 one. But most people can't. I have a Lakland Skyline 55-02 and I had the opportunity to play the US version at NAMM and could not tell any difference. Not in feel, tone, playability....nothing. They felt the same to my unskilled hands.
I'm an avid motorcyclist, and I often get a chuckle out of guys who spend THOUSANDS of dollars to get their bikes to weigh as little as possible. Replacing everything they can with carbon fiber. Then you ask them how many track days they have done, and they say, "none". Or they brag that making their bike lighter dropped 2 seconds off their lap time that a 13 year old kid on a little 250 2-stroke destroyed by 20 seconds.
There is some merit to owning something that is exclusive, or owning something because you appreciate the care and attention to detail that went into it's construction. That's the whole concept behind jewelry and expensive watches. A $10 Timex keeps EXCELLENT time. Much better than a $5000 Rolex. But the Rolex is....well....a Rolex. It's beautiful and exclusive. That's why people buy them.
rockstarbassist
Inactive
MM's are excellent for "mass produced" instruments, and having had 2 custom Modulii made for me (not counting the numerous second-hand ones I've had), and having spent lots of time on some US Sad's, Mods are just as good for fit and finish. Both of mine were flawless outta the shop and never had issues w/ the used ones.
It's not like new Mods are "cheap", either...
So I wouldn't say they're "better" at all. Just turbo jazzes. Totally different style/sounds.
It's not like new Mods are "cheap", either...
So I wouldn't say they're "better" at all. Just turbo jazzes. Totally different style/sounds.
Check, just reinforcing your point.
To the OP: Look, as stated The Ray 5 is one of the top most quality production instruments made, if not the best. It produces an excellent and useable sound which is far more flexible than it usually gets credit for. I did a lot of good work with mine. Ultimately I traded it off for a Sadowsky Metro. Just my choice. You should also understand that Sadowsky Metros are pretty routinely available in mint condition on the used market for $1500 to $1900; which is maybe 15% more than you are going to spend on a Ray these days. So, the differential you are stating in your post is really comparing a custom handmade USA instrument to the production Ray = not really a good comparison. The Metro will 100% give all of the Sadowsky sound; it just doesn't have many options. Kinda like a Ray. So, really the two basses can be evaluated essentially head-on, if you really wanted to do so.
As to real world comparisons: the Sadowsky simply produces a more J flavored sound that some players prefer. That does NOT mean the Ray sound has anything at all wrong about it. I can easily see some players preferring the Ray. That is why I suggested you either need to try a Sadowsky or do a lot of critical listening or both. I am NOT taking any sides or in any way intending to discourage you seeking information. But, there is a lot of information out there. GL in the quest.
As to the Behind the Notes segment being a marketing gambit: sure Roger is going to put his best foot forward. Any builder would do the same. But, beyond that, the segment shows the level of detail that goes into building the instrument. You actually have to listen carefully to figure out just how many hours go into an instrument, but it is a lot; and they aren't selling the instruments at massive margins. Those guys do have to eat and pay benefits etc. We're not talking about Goldman-Sachs here.
Owned a Sadowsky J bass for awhile, very nicely made intrument but just wasnt my thing, have a couple fenders that just do it better for me. Guess it depends on what you want or can afford out of an instrument, if it sounds and plays the way you want it to than just go with it, no matter who made it. Go forth and make music with it.
