If you are worried about pricing, get a Moon. I've got one, they are awesome and it sits along side my MM Sterling as a paradox in sound all day long.
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What makes a Sadowsky better than a Music Man or a Modulus?
- Thread starter Harper
- Start date
Can you provide some data to support this?
From what I've seen, NYC basses are around $4500(?) new and regularly sell for around $3000, used. And Metro basses, new, are around $3000 and regularly sell used for around $1750. My Metro was $3300, new, I think, and I paid $1875, used.
So, Sadowskys seem (to me) to have roughly 30 - 40% depreciation from new to like-new used.
That is right in line with any other major brand.
So, based purely on percentage lost, Sadowsky doesn't seem any better than the rest of the industry. But, if you also look at how much actual money you lose, Sadowsky resale is TERRIBLE. If you buy an NYC for $4500 and do really good and sell it for $3500, you have still lost 1000 DOLLARS.
OTOH, if you pay top dollar to buy a new MusicMan for $1800 and do really badly and sell it for $900, you have still only lost $900. If you spend $1200 on a new Fender Am Std P bass, you could pretty easily sell it used for $800, and then you've only lost $400.
Of course, that's all based on buying new and selling used. If you start off by buying used, then ALL basses pretty much have the same resale value. Which is to say that, if you shop around just about at all, you can buy a used bass of any brand today and sell it later for approximately what you paid for it.
If there is any actual data to support the statement that Sadowskys have better resale than other high-quality brands, I would love to see it.
Chef
In Memoriam
A Sadowsky Metro 5 will set you back $2800-ish.
This is not $3000 more than a Music Man 5 string or Modulus 5 string.
This is not $3000 more than a Music Man 5 string or Modulus 5 string.
Actually, you can. Easily. One word: Peavey.
I'm not saying American made Peaveys are better than MMs. But, I think they are just as good quality and you can easily beat the price of an MM with an equal quality Peavey. By a long shot in the used market.
Chef
In Memoriam
So, basically, you're saying there's about $100 diff in depreciation in "best and worse case scenarios," so, lets call it $3-400 diff in more like average scenarios.....
This doesn't seem bad to me.
This doesn't seem bad to me.
I agree. It's not too bad. But, it is the opposite of RedLeg's statement that a point in favor of Sadowsky is resale value.
Oh, and it's easy for me to say "it's not too bad" because I have no intention to ever buy another brand new bass. So I don't foresee ever taking that $500 - $1500 hit of buying (a high-end bass) new and selling used.
to me it starts and ends with the fretwork.
That is usually very good on sadowskys.
You can have the frets of any bass levelled crowned etc however getting very similar/ the same results.
The rest is taste IMHo.
I watched the video posted earlier in it's entirety. I have a renewed respect for the man. I agree with his assessments and how he builds his basses. That being said, I still wouldn't pay 5 grand for one. I could build something equal in quality for less than 1/4 the price. I realize I'm in the minority though. I still don't see anything worth (essentially) triple the price of a MM.
In my experience Roger's basses are lighter and more resonant than the Musicman basses. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions that come out of the Ernie Ball factory, but generally speaking it's been my observation over time that the Musicman basses tend to be heavier. I owned and played a Stingray for several years, have rented them on occasion for travel gigs and I am always picking em up in the music stores to try em out because they really are great basses with a sound all their own. I'll probably buy another one someday...
I have 2 Sadowsky basses, a fretted and fretless. They are my 'main basses' and I gig and record with them all the time, have done for over 10 years now. The consistency of quality, the resonance and dynamic response of Roger's basses are big factors for me.
Like most, I occasionally jones for 'something else' to play, especially in certain musical contexts. There are times when only a P Bass will do. Or a Rick, or MM, or a Wal... or whatever.
But for most gigging and recording situations that I do, I can't imagine ever not reaching first for my Sadowky's. I have kept and played these basses longer than any other basses I've ever owned.
For what I'm after in an instrument, the $$ difference has been well worth the investment.
I have 2 Sadowsky basses, a fretted and fretless. They are my 'main basses' and I gig and record with them all the time, have done for over 10 years now. The consistency of quality, the resonance and dynamic response of Roger's basses are big factors for me.
Like most, I occasionally jones for 'something else' to play, especially in certain musical contexts. There are times when only a P Bass will do. Or a Rick, or MM, or a Wal... or whatever.
But for most gigging and recording situations that I do, I can't imagine ever not reaching first for my Sadowky's. I have kept and played these basses longer than any other basses I've ever owned.
For what I'm after in an instrument, the $$ difference has been well worth the investment.
The basses listed by the OP are all excellent instruments. I have owned and put to good use all three - 2 Stingrays, a first-year '96 Modulus Flea bass that I gigged and recorded with consistently for 11+ years (Good golly that bass was outstanding!) and my current Sadowsky basses. One area that may not have been mentioned in this thread so far is the incredible CS and attention to the owners of his basses that Roger and his exceptional team provide. When you buy a Sadowsky, not only do you get a wonderfully crafted and performing bass, but you get the backing of one of the best, if not THE best, boutique bass builders in the business today. Roger and his team have on multiple occasions gone so far beyond 100% for me that I have been left speechless. Ernie Ball's CS is good, but in a lesser league. Modulus... well, there is a reason I don't play their basses any more, and trust me when I say, it is not due to a lack of love for their instruments. You do the math. Anyhow... IMO/IME, the extra money spent for a Sadowsky is an investment well worth hard earned cash, and one which goes beyond just the intrinsically obvious merits of Roger's wonderful instruments.
To get really practical with you, I don't think you could (in fact i KNOW you couldn't) build a Sadowsky-inspired "copy" bass without paying someone to do a one-off of his body.
Warmoth comes close with their Dinky J (for a four string), but their five string bodies are based on Fender's pre-2011 Deluxe 5 body shape (which is nothing like the Sadowsky bodies -- "undersized" or "full sized"). And they can't chamber their Dinky bodies either, which makes an NYC Sadowsky copy impossible. They also will not do a 4+1 headstock design on their necks.
USACG's Smaller four string body looks NOTHING like the Sadowsky undersized body (I know, I had one!), but their full sized 5 body comes close to Sadowsky's UV offerings (what aftermarket body supplier doesn't though?)
Ultimately, you COULD build a bass that sounded like a Sadowsky for much less than even a Metro (I did), but everything else set aside, you CANNOT get it to be esthetically 'right there' with a Sadowsky bass without a custom route from a mass producing aftermarket company, a luthier, or yourself.
So to recap, I think you tend to oversimplify the ease of actually 'doing it yourself,' if you get my drift. Note that I'm not arguing for or against the notion that "Sadowsky's are worth the extra over a MM," although I tend to believe as much, on some levels. I do not want to detract from the main point of my reply!
I agree with your post, although there is one nitpick point. I said I could simply build a bass equal in quality, not an exact replica. I could not replicate a Sadowsky and I never said I could, or wanted to. I've played them and they aren't my thing. I'm speaking simply of build quality.
Roger has built a business and he's damned good at what he does and he deserves to charge what he does. I'm just not willing to pay for it. That's really all I'm saying.
IMO, I was unimpressed with the Metro 5 I had. Actually, it was the least favorite bass I have owned in my history for buying/selling. I would try another (maybe), but I def would not buy another on TB with out having the luxury of trying before buying. More than likely if I was going to shell out $2k+ I would rather get an early 80's Fullerton J or 70's vintage J.
I had the luxury of trying a Modulus VJ4 in GC a few weeks back. It had villex pups and a blue quilted top. Sticker price was $1500 (used). I am sure there was some wiggle room. It was a very impressive 4 banger. Never played one before, but again, I was very impressed indeed. So much so I went back last week to buy the bass, it was gone! IMO, is a Sadowsky worth $1k-$1.5k more that the Modulus I tried, no.
I tried a few MM Ray 4's the other week. The ones I tried had basic finishes, but they all had CRAZY BEM figured boards and necks. I mean CRAZY wood. They played and sounded great. I can't remember if they were used or new. Either way, is a Sadowsky worth more to me than a "nice/special" MM Ray, no (bearing in mind, they MM and Sad are tonally different beast. Just speaking in terms of feel and fit/finish).
From what I can gather, Roger and crew run a tight ship.....their CS is second to none. That is worth something and should be considered when buying a bass. If I were getting a Modulus, I would stay 100000 feet clear of anything that was pre-truss rod. I have heard horror stories about pre-truss neck issues and Modulus's CS (or lack there of). Heck, I've even heard trying to get a hold of Modulus on the phone is a PITA. I would buy a truss rod out fitted Modulus w/o hesitation. If I ever had an issue with it, worst-case-scnario I could have my own tech work on it. Also, it sounds like the addition of a truss rod took care of any warping issues pre-truss rod Modulus necks may have had.
I had the luxury of trying a Modulus VJ4 in GC a few weeks back. It had villex pups and a blue quilted top. Sticker price was $1500 (used). I am sure there was some wiggle room. It was a very impressive 4 banger. Never played one before, but again, I was very impressed indeed. So much so I went back last week to buy the bass, it was gone! IMO, is a Sadowsky worth $1k-$1.5k more that the Modulus I tried, no.
I tried a few MM Ray 4's the other week. The ones I tried had basic finishes, but they all had CRAZY BEM figured boards and necks. I mean CRAZY wood. They played and sounded great. I can't remember if they were used or new. Either way, is a Sadowsky worth more to me than a "nice/special" MM Ray, no (bearing in mind, they MM and Sad are tonally different beast. Just speaking in terms of feel and fit/finish).
From what I can gather, Roger and crew run a tight ship.....their CS is second to none. That is worth something and should be considered when buying a bass. If I were getting a Modulus, I would stay 100000 feet clear of anything that was pre-truss rod. I have heard horror stories about pre-truss neck issues and Modulus's CS (or lack there of). Heck, I've even heard trying to get a hold of Modulus on the phone is a PITA. I would buy a truss rod out fitted Modulus w/o hesitation. If I ever had an issue with it, worst-case-scnario I could have my own tech work on it. Also, it sounds like the addition of a truss rod took care of any warping issues pre-truss rod Modulus necks may have had.
I disagree. Differences in tone and appearance are always subjective. Differences in other aspects such as quality and options are not.
Background: I loved Music Man basses back when I played four strings. I hate the narrow string spacing on Music Man fivers, so I do not own one. After many years of deciding which fiver is best for me, I've selected Sadowsky... but I still love the Music Man tone, and recognize that they are fine production line basses.
String spacing preference is subjective of course, however my point is that, now that I'm familiar with both Music Man and Sadowsky, I believe that Sadowsky is superior in terms of fretwork and build quality.
Is Sadowsky $3000 better? Again, that is subjective.
My answer is Yes.Great points. The $3000 difference applies to the Sadowsky NYC models, and with those you have myriad choices regarding woods and colors, and if you speak to the Sadowsky shop you can even get custom options such as special pickup configurations - see my white bass here:
The white bass doesn't sound exactly like a Music Man because of the electronics, but as a long-time Music Man player it sounds plenty close enough to me, and it has the normal string spacing I prefer, instead of the narrow string spacing on the SR5 which I find unplayable.
Chef
In Memoriam
I don't see a white bass there....
Aside:
If you want MusicMan tone, and "regular" 5 string spacing, Nordstrand have such a thing now.
Aside:
If you want MusicMan tone, and "regular" 5 string spacing, Nordstrand have such a thing now.
P.S. It's overly simplistic and somewhat fallacious to say that the $3000 difference can simply be chalked up to supply and demand. The real reason for the difference is that Sadowsky spends a lot more time on each instrument than Music Man: custom shop versus assembly line. Because of this, Music Man can produce many more instruments (greater supply) at a reduced price (which increases demand).
