What makes someone think they're a vocalist?

[Jim Nazium]

I think part of the problem with singing (and acting) is that the first step is so easy. Anyone can grab a mike and sing on their first try. They probably won't be singing well, but they'll be singing. Same with acting. Anyone can stand on a stage and act the first day. It won't be good acting, but it will be acting.

Now compare that to playing trumpet, for example. You're not going to get even one note out of a trumpet the first day, or even the first week. You can't fake it. It takes years of work to be a competent horn player.

I think that to sing really well takes as much discipline and study as to play an instrument really well. I know some singers who have great ears and thorough understanding of music theory. They're great to work with. But I think many people are deceived by the ease of that first step into thinking that none of that is necessary.

 

[Joebarnes]

"What key do you sing in?"

Sooooooo many people respond with "whatever key the song is in".

And of course the appropriate answer is always "D minor, the saddest of all keys."

 

[Faith Nicole]

I know what key a sing any given song in.

The question is, "what key do you sing in?"

I understood that. My 'natural key' is C, but I can sing in other keys and some songs require a different key to sound right.

When I am in doubt on a key (almost always), and a dry run feels comfortable, I ask the band to try C. They tell me soon enough if it isn't working I wasn't trying to imply that you cannot sing in any key you want, but you still should know the key natural to your voice.

 

[mellowinman]

I understood that. My 'natural key' is C, but I can sing in other keys and some songs require a different key to sound right.

When I am in doubt on a key (almost always), and a dry run feels comfortable, I ask the band to try C. They tell me soon enough if it isn't working I wasn't trying to imply that you cannot sing in any key you want, but you still should know the key natural to your voice.

Well, I don't. But the post I was responding to says that if I don't, then I am somehow not a vocalist.

I think "what key do you sing in" is a dumb question, because it could vary.

What style? How much range is there in the song? Am I singing "Three Blind Mice" or "The Star Spangled Banner?"

I don't see how a singer with any kind of range could have a certain key they sing in.

I have a clean style, a gruff style, an airy style, a full voiced style, and a screamy style. Each would most likely fall within a different "natural" key.

I am just here to tell you all that there are some good singers out there who have never even given a moment's thought to what key they sing in, so the question as a qualifier is not a good one.

 

[BayStateBass]

Well, I don't. But the post I was responding to says that if I don't, then I am somehow not a vocalist.

I think "what key do you sing in" is a dumb question, because it could vary.

What style? How much range is there in the song? Am I singing "Three Blind Mice" or "The Star Spangled Banner?"

I don't see how a singer with any kind of range could have a certain key they sing in.

I have a clean style, a gruff style, an airy style, a full voiced style, and a screamy style. Each would most likely fall within a different "natural" key.

I am just here to tell you all that there are some good singers out there who have never even given a moment's thought to what key they sing in, so the question as a qualifier is not a good one.

No, it's actually a good one. I'm just a bassist but I know I sing in the key of A. Can I sing in others? Yes, somewhat. But my natural key is A.

I hate to burst your bubble dude, but you cannot sing in "any key" and make it sound right. Very few people could, if any. The voice is not infinitely variable and has a natural tone that it settles on. This is why bands usually play songs in a limited number of key signatures; it's where their singers perform well.

If you find someone who has no idea what key they sing in, it's usually safe to assume that they've had no vocal training of any type. Could they just be a raw talent? Sure. Could they be fun to listen to? Possibly, sure. But to me it's the same as the guitarist or bassist who is "completely self-taught....never had a lesson even once!". Could they be fantastic? Sure. But usually this is not the case when they are put up against those who have professional training. To draw another parallel; it's like a bassist who has no idea what the notes are that they are playing but just plays ones that "sound right" and "fit the song".

My experience with these people has been that they are usually mediocre at best.

And to put on my "I'm an ass" hat I'll borrow from you, in my mind a vocalist who knows things like what key they sing in, and has had vocal training separates the "vocalists" from "the guy/girl that sings".

Again, just my opinion. That and two bucks gets you a coffee at Dunkin's.

If it works, go with it. Just sharing my own experiences.

 

[Ric5]

What makes someone think they're a vocalist?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They can open their mouth and make sound come out ...

Most people are not very good singers.

 

[Lobomov]

No, it's actually a good one. I'm just a bassist but I know I sing in the key of A. Can I sing in others? Yes, somewhat. But my natural key is A.

I hate to burst your bubble dude, but you cannot sing in "any key" and make it sound right.

Please explain to me, why you sound better singng in the key of A, where the melody hits the notes A B C# D and E than in the Key of D where the melody is still composed with those same five notes?

I'd go with Mellowinman and state that range of vocalist and not the key is important.

Good singers ranges are 3+ octaves, what key can't they sing in?

 

[nutdog]

I sing Johnny B Goode in A, Jailhouse Rock in C, Heartbreak Hotel in E, Margaritaville in D, Another Brick in the Wall Dm, Squeeze Box in G, Arise My Soul in F...

Which one of these is my "natural key"?

 

[DwaynieAD]

Before I joined the Metal band I'm currently playing bass in I put out a Craigslist add trying to start a country cover band. The only replies I got was at least half a dozen "singers."

have you ever sang in a band before? no
do you have any video or audio clips of you singing? no
do you own a pa? no
fair enough, but do you at least own a mic? no
do you play any instruments? no

but they all assured me the sounded just like one of the current top charting country music stars....

 

[Faith Nicole]

Please explain to me, why you sound better singng in the key of A, where the melody hits the notes A B C# D and E than in the Key of D where the melody is still composed with those same five notes?

I'd go with Mellowinman and state that range of vocalist and not the key is important.

Good singers ranges are 3+ octaves, what key can't they sing in?

So you want to sing in any old key comfortable to you without allowing the musicians to do the same? If they set up to play in the wrong key, the patterns are different and they will not compliment your voice. Sometimes it's easier then others to shift keys on the fly. You need to know the key to set them up correctly. Knowing your natural key is simply the starting point for you. People with limited range cannot vary from from it but as a vocalist you should know it regardless.

I sing Johnny B Goode in A, Jailhouse Rock in C, Heartbreak Hotel in E, Margaritaville in D, Another Brick in the Wall Dm, Squeeze Box in G, Arise My Soul in F...

Which one of these is my "natural key"?

The one you don't adjust for is your natural. You do those songs in different keys, but you adjust up or down for some of them - consciously or not. If you've done them for a long time you probably don't even think about it any more, you just sing them.

It's similar to a musician that plays one part of the fretboard consistently and is comfortable there, he doesn't have to stretch his fingers and his hand sort of hangs in place naturally. Change position for a key and he adjusts, can he still play it, sure, but it's not the natural place for his hand/fingers.

probably not the best analogy and since I really don't feel like going back and forth on it - I agree to disagree with your perspective.

 

[BayStateBass]

Please explain to me, why you sound better singng in the key of A, where the melody hits the notes A B C# D and E than in the Key of D where the melody is still composed with those same five notes?

I'd go with Mellowinman and state that range of vocalist and not the key is important.

Good singers ranges are 3+ octaves, what key can't they sing in?

E#.

Just kidding.

I can sing songs in A and usually D. But....I tried my hand at a couple in C and G and I could not sing them. It did not fit my voice and I struggled to duplicate the notes. In A I can span two octaves, which certainly doesn't qualify me as a good singer, so yes my range is limited as well. But I still believe that each person has a certain key, or maybe a couple, that they perform best with. Show me a singer that has a collection of songs that span all different key signatures and they are good performances.

Am I the only one here who thinks this isn't a crazy question?

So, if really good singers who sing in three octaves can sing in any key, why don't they? It's certainly not because the band can't play the notes.

 

[jive1]

"What key do you sing in?"

Sooooooo many people respond with "whatever key the song is in".

Red flag #1.

I think a better wording is what key do you like to sing in?

But like MarshMellowinMan said, it also depends on what style or timbre the song is in. I prefer singing in Gb, Bb, and Eb. Eb is good for me if I have to be in a higher range, Bb is good when I'm in a lower range, and Gb sits right in the middle for me. But, I have sung songs in other keys than those 3. It's just that those keys fit different ranges for me, and gets me into my wheelhouse. I can sing in other keys, but it usually doesn't sound as good because it either limits my range, or it's not in my wheelhouse.

But like you said in a later post, a singer who knows the keys they prefer to sing in tells me that they at least have some experience in a band. And I agree that the voice is a limited instrument, and it's rare for someone who can sing any song in any key. I know that I have to transpose to sing a lot of songs, and I prefer to tune 1/2 step down when I do.

 

[Lobomov]

E#.
So, if really good singers who sing in three octaves can sing in any key, why don't they? It's certainly not because the band can't play the notes.

Tbh .. I haven't noticed, that they don't. Take Sting:

Roxanne is in G-minor
Cant stand losing you in D-minor
So lonely in C-major
Message in a bottle in C#-minor
Bring on the night in E (minor)


To take a couple of 1979 police songs (so that you can't say he is getting older), but if you expand that a couple of years, I'm pretty sure you'll find practically every key in there.

 

[BayStateBass]

I think a better wording is what key do you like to sing in?

But like MarshMellowinMan said, it also depends on what style or timbre the song is in. I prefer singing in Gb, Bb, and Eb. Eb is good for me if I have to be in a higher range, Bb is good when I'm in a lower range, and Gb sits right in the middle for me. But, I have sung songs in other keys than those 3. It's just that those keys fit different ranges for me, and gets me into my wheelhouse. I can sing in other keys, but it usually doesn't sound as good because it either limits my range, or it's not in my wheelhouse.

But like you said in a later post, a singer who knows the keys they prefer to sing in tells me that they at least have some experience in a band. And I agree that the voice is a limited instrument, and it's rare for someone who can sing any song in any key. I know that I have to transpose to sing a lot of songs, and I prefer to tune 1/2 step down when I do.

Thank you. I know you don't agree 100% but at least you can see some of what I'm saying.

 

[E.J. T.N.T.]

Totally agree with the karaoke/open mic sessions suggestions. You can be really surprised with some of the people that show up there, both pleasantly and unpleasantly.
Some months ago, I was at a karaoke party and sang some 70's hard rock classics. Two half-wasted guys came up to me and asked me if I wanted to join their band. I laughed so hard, because I don't take my vocal skills seriously, but I said I would try it even though they would probably regret it. I rehearsed with them twice and played a gig on lead vocals doing rock covers. Had a ton of fun, the guys had fun but I told them I was not too serious about this. We are doing a gig next week.

But here is the deal for me:

-I have ok pitch
-I have ok range
-I can sing from the diaphragm
-I have a mic and a stand
-I know the lyrics to almost every Kiss and Foreigner song
-I have fun on stage

Those should be the bare minimum for ALL. I don't consider myself a lead singer by no means, but I would like to sing more. Maybe some day.

 

[nutdog]

The one you don't adjust for is your natural. You do those songs in different keys, but you adjust up or down for some of them - consciously or not. If you've done them for a long time you probably don't even think about it any more, you just sing them.

I don't adjust for any of them. I picked those keys because I can sing those songs easiest in those keys. I probably couldn't sing Jailhouse Rock in A or Johnny B Goode in C. When deciding, if I can't sing in the original key, I move around until I find a key I can sing it in. It doesn't always end up in the same key. It varies widely depending on the song.

I'm having a hard time imagining a singer that wanted to sing every song in the same key.

 

[mellowinman]

I hate to burst your bubble dude, but you cannot sing in "any key" and make it sound right. Very few people could, if any. The voice is not infinitely variable and has a natural tone that it settles on. This is why bands usually play songs in a limited number of key signatures; it's where their singers perform well.

If you find someone who has no idea what key they sing in, it's usually safe to assume that they've had no vocal training of any type. Could they just be a raw talent? Sure. Could they be fun to listen to? Possibly, sure. But to me it's the same as the guitarist or bassist who is "completely self-taught....never had a lesson even once!". Could they be fantastic? Sure. But usually this is not the case when they are put up against those who have professional training. To draw another parallel; it's like a bassist who has no idea what the notes are that they are playing but just plays ones that "sound right" and "fit the song".

My experience with these people has been that they are usually mediocre at best.

And to put on my "I'm an ass" hat I'll borrow from you, in my mind a vocalist who knows things like what key they sing in, and has had vocal training separates the "vocalists" from "the guy/girl that sings".

During our shows, I sing the following songs:

Ten Inch Record - Key of A
Sweet Emotion - Key of A
Whole Lotta Love - Key of E
Rockin in the Free world - Key of Emin
Whipping Post - Key of G
Freebird - Key of G
Train Kept a Rolling - Key of G
Yer Blues - Key of E
While my Guitar Gently Weeps - Key of Amin
Money - Key of Bmin
Comfortably Numb - Key of Bmin
Revolution - Key of B
The Chain - Key of Dmin

So what key is it I can't or shouldn't sing in? I perform well enough on all these songs that my highly critical wife hasn't said, "you can't sing that; let's drop it," and believe me, she would if it didn't sound good!

When I sing mellow, acoustic songs, and I might transpose them up or down, based on what fits the mood. For example, the Eagles "Peaceful Easy Feeling" is in E to fit Glen Frey's voice, but when I sing it in that key, it sounds bland, so I goose it up to C, and it sounds much better. Does that mean my natural key is C? I doubt it!

I'm not saying I can sing any song in any key. But songs have ranges. They could be on the low side of the key, or the high side of the key, or cover more than one octave within the key.

I'm just saying this whole "ask the singer what key they sing in, and if they don't know, they're not a VOCALIST," is BS, and rank elitism that is no better than gear snobbery. A singer only needs to sing for you to be able to tell if they have ability. They don't need formal training to sing rock and roll, for God's sake.

 

[BayStateBass]

It might be tantamount to "gear snobbery", I suppose. I'll give you that. But suffering through singer after singer who was a hit at Karoake night or went to a bunch of open mics and now thinks they are a "vocalist" because everyone tells them how awesome they are has been very frustrating for me over the years I've done this (granted it might not be as long as you have, you ancient, dusty old relic ). And they always seem to think that the band has to be 100% awesome, accurate, and sound just like the record while they warble into the microphone and hit notes that cause dog's heads to explode in a 100-mile radius.

Hey, like I said before, if it's working for you that's awesome. You have your opinion, I have mine.

So



Right back at 'ya.

 

[Bassdirty]

There are plenty of singers that have made it big that can not sing.

Bob Dylan , Tom Petty, Geddy Lee,Yoko Ono,Linda McCartney, Kurt Cobain, Neal Young,Eddie Vedder, Iggy Pop, Dick Dale,Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson all told them that anyone can make big as a singer.

Hmm..I agree with most of your list..
tho I do think geddy can sing but I fckin hate the saund with the passion burning of a thousand suns.

I also think curt Cobain can sing..as well as vedder..not a huge fan of curt..but I did love me some old pj.

Niel young..I agree 10000000000 percent..if thats possible . yikes.

 

[mellowinman]

It might be tantamount to "gear snobbery", I suppose. I'll give you that. But suffering through singer after singer who was a hit at Karoake night or went to a bunch of open mics and now thinks they are a "vocalist" because everyone tells them how awesome they are has been very frustrating for me over the years I've done this (granted it might not be as long as you have, you ancient, dusty old relic ). And they always seem to think that the band has to be 100% awesome, accurate, and sound just like the record while they warble into the microphone and hit notes that cause dog's heads to explode in a 100-mile radius.

Hey, like I said before, if it's working for you that's awesome. You have your opinion, I have mine.

So



Right back at 'ya.

Well, I back my opinion up with video, so feel free to check out the ten tons of vids I have posted, and let me know what my freaking key is.