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What makes the difference between poweramps?

dezspet

dezspet

Mar 21, 2007
249
3
Hungary
www.thecairoproject.com
#1
I am thinking of changing my gear to a preamp/poweramp/high cab/low cab setup.
For me the mysterious part is the poweramp. I know that some of them are heavier, others are lighter. Obviously the power can be different.

But what are the important features and properties I should pay attention to? The properties which are influencing the overall sound?

Many of you uses QSC and other PA poweramps, while there are many bass specific poweramps on the market. Is there any basic difference between them? Which are the brands you would prefer?

My dream rig is the Hellborg system, but I could buy a different poweramp into it, because the Hellborg one is very expensive (1600EUR), heavy (21 kg) with max 500W of output.
 
#2
 
#3
i would say there is not a huge difference between poweramps. maybe some sonic clarity ect. the tone will really come from the preamp, any good power amp only multiplys the signal, and adds no tone of its own. a crest, crown, any major company will be good. i will say if your gonna be using 500w, get a 750-1000 watt amp. if u play a 500w amp at 500w, it will be under heavy usage and strain and may not last as long. i use crown macro tech amps, about 2000 watts, i run em at about 750w. never get hot... johnny a
 
#5
I'm with johnny a here as regards pro power amps - especially in a live performance environment. The only real concern is to make sure one's preamp is capable of driving them to nominal levels easily. (Heads with their default preamp voicings and oft-compromised power supplies and designs are entirely a different story altogether.)

If one is really concerned about LF performance they'd do better to worry about their cab/driver choices as that's always the biggest bottleneck.
 
#6
If you insist on a modern light weight high power amp, it will cost ya.

If you are willing to haul a bit more, there are lots of great deals on very powerful and reliable amps that will serve you well.

For example (these amps have reasonably comparable power ratings)

New QSC 1802= $899, 21 lbs.

Used Crest CA6= $400, 44 lbs.

I do agree that you should buy more power than you need.
 
#7
I agree completely with Greenboy, and do not underestimate the need of the preamp having enough level to fully drive the poweramp.

The biggest difference I'm concerned with in PA style amps is repair service. Go for the one you can get fixed as close to home as possible.
 
#8
Thanks guys, but I really wonder if there are differences in sound. I mean theoretically it's impossible not to color the sound, I wonder if it's audible at all.
The other thing which I experienced in "normal" bass amps, that some of them have a much faster response than others. Isn't it a difference between the power amp sections (partly)?
Also, I wonder if the have any influence in dynamism. Or is it only the pre?
And finally, justifying my doubts, there is an obvious, audible difference between SS power amps and tube power amps. I can really hardly imagine that all solid power amps sound the same then... :hiding:
 
#9
1/ It beats me why anyone. would want a 500 watt rig. Its just more to carry around and muddy the stage sound. Its what your PA rig should be doing. If you have too much power on stage you take away the ability to balance it down. Sounds like GAS to me.

2/
imagine that all solid power amps sound the same then...
Click to expand...
Not really. I just bought a PV2600 for PA use, to replace an ageing Studiomaster MOSFET1000. The old one is far more musical an rounded. Until you put a heavy load on them. After that it starts to even out. However, given that you may only run it at 200W, you might end up with a weedy sound.

I use a basspod XTlive into a DI box and off to the PA. My amp is just a monitor

3/ given any thought to your speakers?
 
#10
Pbassred said:
1/ It beats me why anyone. would want a 500 watt rig. Its just more to carry around and muddy the stage sound. Its what your PA rig should be doing. If you have too much power on stage you take away the ability to balance it down. Sounds like GAS to me.
Click to expand...

Ever play a gig without PA support? Or, perhaps, only use the PA for vocals at rehearsal? Maybe you like a clean, uncompressed tone with a big bottom end? That needs a lot of power.
 
#11
Interceptor said:
I agree completely with Greenboy, and do not underestimate the need of the preamp having enough level to fully drive the poweramp.

The biggest difference I'm concerned with in PA style amps is repair service. Go for the one you can get fixed as close to home as possible.
Click to expand...
+1 I've used several different brands of power amps in my rig over the years and I can honestly say that I couldn't tell much if any difference in any of them. However, when a QSC USA 1320 went down and my local dealer gave me a loaner until it could be fixed, that was a big difference over the Carvin DCM1000 that lost a channel and would have had to be sent back to Carvin. I never bothered to send it back, I just bought another QSC from my local dealer. The Carvin is still boxed in the shed.
 
#12
Ever play a gig without PA support? Or, perhaps, only use the PA for vocals at rehearsal? Maybe you like a clean, uncompressed tone with a big bottom end? That needs a lot of power.
Click to expand...
Why do you need 500W for a REHEARSAL? Audio volume/quality is irelavent at a rehersal, because you are there to reherse notes and cues not massage your ego.

Sure I played gigs with only vocal P.A. However (pay attention here) the best sound comes from a well run sound reinforcement system - at ANY volume. If its worth buying a 500W rig, its worth getting a real P.A rig.
 
#13
Pbassred said:
1/ It beats me why anyone. would want a 500 watt rig. Its just more to carry around and muddy the stage sound. Its what your PA rig should be doing. If you have too much power on stage you take away the ability to balance it down. Sounds like GAS to me...
Click to expand...

just because you can get away with less than 500watts doesn't mean everyone can... good for you.

I need at least 500watts just to hear myself at practice... this is how the band likes to practice and how i like to play

/story - continue relevant discussion

To my ears, there is a difference between different poweramps although it is kinda hard to explain, as it's not so much in terms of basic coloration, but more in terms of clarity and headroom

get an extra couple watts on top of what you need and a decent preamp and you're set - unless you like a dirty overdriven tone, then you are better off with tubes IMO
 
#14
Pbassred said:
1/ It beats me why anyone. would want a 500 watt rig. Its just more to carry around and muddy the stage sound. Its what your PA rig should be doing. If you have too much power on stage you take away the ability to balance it down. Sounds like GAS to me.

2/ Not really. I just bought a PV2600 for PA use, to replace an ageing Studiomaster MOSFET1000. The old one is far more musical an rounded. Until you put a heavy load on them. After that it starts to even out. However, given that you may only run it at 200W, you might end up with a weedy sound.

I use a basspod XTlive into a DI box and off to the PA. My amp is just a monitor

3/ given any thought to your speakers?
Click to expand...
Not all gigs use PA support. In fact, I haven't used bass through the PA for several years now. :eek:
 
#15
Pbassred said:
1/ It beats me why anyone. would want a 500 watt rig. Its just more to carry around and muddy the stage sound. Its what your PA rig should be doing. If you have too much power on stage you take away the ability to balance it down. Sounds like GAS to me.



2/ Not really. I just bought a PV2600 for PA use, to replace an ageing Studiomaster MOSFET1000. The old one is far more musical an rounded. Until you put a heavy load on them. After that it starts to even out. However, given that you may only run it at 200W, you might end up with a weedy sound.



I use a basspod XTlive into a DI box and off to the PA. My amp is just a monitor



3/ given any thought to your speakers?
Click to expand...



Well, I use a 500W amp (MarkBass TA501) for rehearsal and it works just fine. I also use an 1800W (QSC 1804) into two 4-ohm cabs for shows. It's not too loud on stage. That's why I have a volume control. But it certainly can be. It can also certainly cover outdoors on a large stage with PA support, indoors on a large stage with no PA support, or serve as a backup poweramp for the PA or keyboard rig if it needs to. Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it. And the additional headroom makes for a cleaner, tighter, and better overall sound when you do turn it up.

And I always run my rig thru the FOH, regardless of hom much power I have on stage. I'm of the opinion that your amp should be your monitor only. It's for you and the band, not the audience. Keep it just as loud as you need it on stage and no more. I've never had a problem turning my rig down when it needed it. Then again, I've worked for years as a sound guy too, and know what I gotta do to make things work out front.

And as far as carrying more than 500W, the QSC is a weight -thing. My Demeter/QSC rig (1800W) weighs about the same as my old Fender Bassman 100 (100W). Same with the MarkBass (500W). It only weighs 8 pounds, which is actually less than the the Demeter preamp in my big rig.




dcr
 
#16
dcr said:
Well, I use a 500W amp (MarkBass TA501) for rehearsal and it works just fine. I also use an 1800W (QSC 1804) into two 4-ohm cabs for shows. It's not too loud on stage. That's why I have a volume control. But it certainly can be. It can also certainly cover outdoors on a large stage with PA support, indoors on a large stage with no PA support, or serve as a backup poweramp for the PA or keyboard rig if it needs to. Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it. And the additional headroom makes for a cleaner, tighter, and better overall sound when you do turn it up.

And I always run my rig thru the FOH, regardless of hom much power I have on stage. I'm of the opinion that your amp should be your monitor only. It's for you and the band, not the audience. Keep it just as loud as you need it on stage and no more. I've never had a problem turning my rig down when it needed it. Then again, I've worked for years as a sound guy too, and know what I gotta do to make things work out front.

And as far as carrying more than 500W, the QSC is a weight -thing. My Demeter/QSC rig (1800W) weighs about the same as my old Fender Bassman 100 (100W). Same with the MarkBass (500W). It only weighs 8 pounds, which is actually less than the the Demeter preamp in my big rig.




dcr
Click to expand...
I like to use a fairly loud rehearsal rig myself. I use a Yorkville BassMaster 400T. (2x10-400watt) I don't crank it up but, it's there if I need it.
 
#18
Right now, I'm using a Demeter HBP-1. But I've also used (in no particular order):

Kern
Read
Peavey x2
Ampeg (the older, original one. I forget the model).

Always wanted to try an Alembic, since it's modeled after the old Fender circuit, but I've never gotten around to it. Really loved the sound of my Bassman.



dcr
 

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