Double Bass What moved you forward the most?

[Tom Lane]

I expect that there are as many valid answers to this question as there are individuals, but still, common threads might appear. And, at the end of the day, I expect that we all have to master the instrument, learn to hear the music in our minds before we can play it, and learn the idioms of those who have come before us. Get our chops together. Still, are some lessons worth more than others?

I know some of the answers already: stop reading charts and learn to pickup tunes by ear, drilling scales, etc.

YMWPV. What was it for you?

 

[Alexis Duntov]

For me it was using iReal Pro and the playback feature that allows you to remove the bass. Looking at the chart, being able to change the key and tempo (unlike with traditional Aebersold-style playalongs) probably most drastically improved my playing. That and one lesson with Neal Miner. But I'm still a novice.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Hands down, the thing that helped/helps me make the most progress is recording myself often and taking the time to actually review the recordings in a critical way. What I think I sound like from behind the bass in the context of a noisy bandstand environment and what I actually sound like out as a part of an overall ensemble mix are two entirely different things. My old composition teacher back in college used to always talk about his "two hats" theory: When you are writing music, you're all involved with all of these minute details that are a part of the creation of the overall product, and you often miss the forest because you're planting all of these trees; he said you have to take off your composer hat and go sit in the audience often and judge the piece that way, and that the ability to do this was one of the most important aspects of a successful craftsman. I believed it then, and I believe it now. And since improvisation is basically just spontaneous composition and arranging, the same applies IMO. As always, YMWCB.

(Most brutally honest teacher I've ever had - and I've had a few!):

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Having the ability to imagine sound just ahead of the current moment. What Hal Galper calls "pre-hearing" the music.

Imagining not just what I'm going to play, but at the same time imagining the drummer, the guide tones to the tune as well the melody all at the same time. The more I can imagine those 3 things as I'm playing, the better the quality in general. Trying to embody an entire band unto myself.

That kind of thing can't happen if I'm not centered, grounded, and trying to "do" something.

 

[Sam Sherry]

My first jazz DB teacher and my first legit DB teacher each, without knowing the other, instilled the lesson that almost all limits on the bass are self-imposed. Just do it. We're not surgeons; if we blow it everybody will keep breathing.

TB/DB exposed me to the most important piece of gear I use, The NoAmp. I played DB for about twenty years without ever getting the top two levels of sound from the instrument. Ed Fuqua's relentless example pushed me to work on that. The people I play with really notice, even when I use an amp.

 

[Treyzer]

This site has helped me so much in more ways than I can recount. There are some very talented people contributing here. Also, within the last 4 or 5 years I've been very fortunate to have some wonderful lessons with some exceptional bassists. I play stronger and louder now. All of the work on 3 octave scales and arpeggios has actually transformed the way I play. What I thought, at one time was maybe impossible, seems easy and commonplace. I hope I never stop learning and progressing. At least for me, it seems the more I know and understand, the more I know what I don't know and music is a lifetime's work.... That's my story and I'm sticking to it....

 

[SteveC]

Teaching.

Learning a new style/genre.

Listening to recordings of yourself.

 

[Carl Hillman]

1) Listening to other players, live and on recordings. Early on, this helped me to obtain a model of sound and swing and melodies in my head.
2) Learning tunes. Really memorizing them. Changes and melodies. Practicing them in more than just the Real Book keys.
3) Transcribing and nailing the nuances of solos and bass lines of players I admire.

 

[Asher S]

DB technique: Geoff Chalmers's lessons on DiscoverDoubleBass.com

Jazz: playing with others, recordings of our gigs, playing with my favorite records.

 

[Tom Lane]

Thanks everyone for producing a great list of important developmental aspects. I had to consider this for a few days after I thought of the question. For me, the things that have moved me forward the most have been singing what I want to learn to play and singing while I accompany myself - thanks Chris - and listening to great players live. After that, I'd have to say transcribing and mimicking.

 

[zontar]

I had a teacher who got me even more interested in figuring out different ways to arrange songs--I already liked to do that--but when I heard how well he did it, and made a song fit his personality & style--that made me want to do that even more--and I saw potential I never had before.

 

[brianrost]

This might sound stupid, but just getting out and playing jazz helped me the most. I still really suck as a jazz bassist but after having my head handed to me on a platter every gig at least I understood what I had to work on and had the motivation.

 

[Feral Feline]

+1 to BrianRost's post.

Gigging or jamming with others gives me the incentive I need to learn, practice and play.

It's a virtual positive feedback loop.

I'm merely posting so that I'm subbed and can glean as much from the thread as possible.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Following this thread I've been trying to understand what's "moved me forward" but nothing much to say comes to mind. Or rather too many small things do and I realize that far from any monumental epiphanies or crux moments a series of fairly unremarkable baby steps has taken me from blind ignorance to an unequivocal awareness of my ignorance. Thank gawd this poopie ain't rocket science.

 

[Need Gigs]

I'm pretty terrible so take this with a grain of salt if you like.
Playing things slowly. Really slowly.
Having a deadline. For me it was being asked to play upright in a large theatre production and having to learn to execute the entire score.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Actually, playing this really really slowly is a great insight if you read Lee Konitz' semi-autobiography. He advocated playing something so slowly that any listener that came up next to you should not recognize what you're playing. I use it regularly to learn hard tunes. If you can play it excruciatingly slow for a while, playing it at faster tempo got a lot easier in less time. Not quite a short cut but more efficient way to learn IMO. YMMV.

 

[Lee Moses]

I'm pretty terrible so take this with a grain of salt if you like.
Playing things slowly. Really slowly.
Having a deadline. For me it was being asked to play upright in a large theatre production and having to learn to execute the entire score.

Actually, playing this really really slowly is a great insight if you read Lee Konitz' semi-autobiography. He advocated playing something so slowly that any listener that came up next to you should not recognize what you're playing. I use it regularly to learn hard tunes. If you can play it excruciatingly slow for a while, playing it at faster tempo got a lot easier in less time. Not quite a short cut but more efficient way to learn IMO. YMMV.

I'm a fan of learning pieces at manageable tempos and working them up to speed. I recall Rabbath and perhaps some others opposing that, saying you should begin learning and practicing at tempo--but I don't recall the reasoning for that.

 

[Groove Doctor]

The old saying.....
"An amateur practices until they get it right, A professional practices until they never get it wrong. "

 

[Tom Lane]

The old saying.....
"An amateur practices until they get it right, A professional practices until they never get it wrong. "

So, this is a big one for me too. I heard the ethic, get it 110%. I've found that 110% isn't enough because somebody else screws up, but if I'm at the *I cannot play it wrong* point, which, takes many, many, many months of effort, I adjust to anybody's, everybody else's screw-ups and still make the tune sing. And I mean SING. Another difference between the amateur and the pro. The melody and the harmony have got to be in your bones.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

OTOH, being able to recover as a skill is an art. Sometimes I refer to the Art of B.S.'ing.

Jazz, in particular, is an imperfect art. Without a sense of risk and danger, it's pretty boring IMO. It's the masters who can weave the imperfect into their yarn and make it perfect. It's got to have this feeling that it's a delicate thing that might disappear in front of your eyes if you're not listening carefullly.

To that extent, I forget how much I get out of playing something "wrong". We focus so much on perfection that it often loses the sense of fun and adventure. I've never heard any teacher (cept maybe in a Kenny Werner vid) allow a student to intentionally play something incorrectly, at least to the point of not losing your place in the music. It's a really liberating experience and often times it's surprising what comes out. Do it enough and playing things wrong isn't so intimidating anymore. It makes me look forward to mistakes in the music - happy accidents. I get that sense from Monk's music - it makes it quirky and colorful to listen to.

The only way to practice making wrong things right is by actually doing it. Perfect practice doesn't do that. It's a different area of study. Perfect practice doesn't help you keep your cool when you f*** it up and figure out a quick way to right your ship. It doesn't help you clue in when the soloist gets lost and you have to catch their mistakes. I get a kick out of catching anybody elses mistake and smoothing it over as if it never happened.

It's also what makes it so much fun to play with certain big pros. They make you feel like Superman.

Yeah that moved me forward in a big way. I wasn't so afraid of challenges or being a little ill-prepared at times after exploring the world of "wrong".